Some very valid points regarding duty of care. The comments about not paying him by saints seem pretty dismissive of him as a person. Lance may have retired from playing and hence not be paid for that but saints could have continued to pay him in some other capacity which wouldn't have counted against the cap. Seeing as his forced retirement came about as a direct result of something that happened whilst he was playing for them it would have been the right thing to do rather than just leave him and his family without his income whilst thousands of miles away from home. Hudds did so with both fielden and currently are with Robinson.

Seems odd... I really can't see Saints being deliberately negligible. As an employer, they will have taken advice on this matter surely.

I am shocked at St Helens' cruel behaviour.

I once gave Eammon McManus a large piece of my steak, while at a post-match dinner at the Wembley restaurant in Canet, southern France, because there was not enough steak to go around.

I will never do that again.

I agree with this.

I feel extremely sorry for how his career has ended, but the crux seems to be payments following his resignation. I understand his frustration at the lack of heart of Saints, perhaps, but you cannot expect a 'golden handshake' when you resign, irrespective if you put your body on the line etc.

You damn well should be able to. How utterly heartless do you have to be see a player under your employ sustain a serious head injury that ends his career and think your responsibility ends there.

Im pretty appalled that his contract wasnt paid up to be honest and its a crying shame how utterly blase the game is about players who leave it at 30 years of age, often having not earned a whole lot, often with bodies battered and broken down and often with not a whole lot of alternative options

I don't want to get into any legality. But I defiantly would not expect Saints to 'pay up' his contract. Firstly, he played with Saints for 3 of his 13 seasons, thus should Saints pay out his remaining contract or should the New Zealand Warriors shoulder some blame to concussions sustained with them, that had an accumulative effect.

Plus, how can you sue Ben Flower personally? Without suggesting you should sue other players for negligible 'swinging arms' that have also caused him concussions. Both are illegal?

I'm playing devils advocate here.

He resigned and from what I can gather this was his decisions and NOT on medical advice (I maybe wrong)

Secondly, if anyone was to 'pay up' it would be Lances insurance company, I think.

It is obviously a terrible state of affairs but legally a minefield.

I think you are being overly harsh on Saints. They gave him plenty of support and treatment after the Grand Final and had him scanned multiple times to ensure he was able to return to playing. It is even hinted at by Hohaia that the scans showed no reason to stop playing. He also hints at not making a fuss about his symptoms, you are claiming it's negligent that Saints didn't spot the symptoms, how would they? Do all other clubs give their players a memory test to ensure they remember what happened the previous game? I'm entirely sure they don't. Hohaia even mentions being left out of a game the following season due to his symptoms of concussion, which again points to Saints showing due care and attention to his health. Hohaia also mentions wanting to take an extended leave, why would Saints permit that if he had been reporting no ill effects until that point and his scans showed no reason to be concerned?

The best way to resolve this would be a court case. But it seems Hohaia doesn't want any of that, which hints at it's likely outcome as it's clear he has no lingering sense of duty to the club. If it's just because he's an easy going guy who doesn't want the fuss, why allow an interview and go both barrells on the club?

regardless of legalities, Saints owe a moral duty of care to players representing them. Hohaia clearly and obviously suffered a severe head injury. We saw it happen. That led to his retirement. Its incredibly wrong of the game to simply abandon him.

Im not particularly having a go at Saints, im sure many clubs would do the same. Its still wrong.

I think you are being overly generous to Saints. Other clubs probably would act in a similar way. But that is just a bigger problem, not mitigation.

The fact is that head injuries are poorly understood, but that is simply why need to err on the side of caution, and to be proactive about it. We cant take risks because the consequences of being wrong are horrendous.

Ours is a warriors sport, a gladiatorial one, that shouldnt be lost but we as a game are responsible for players safety. If that means a concussion test every week, thats what we have to do, if it means Hohaia takes extended leave to get over it, we support him, if he has to retire, we support him. We do whatever it takes.

If Hohaia wasnt a big name player with 13 years of good pay behind him, if he was a 24 year old fringe player with a wife and kids and mortgage payments to make he may not have been able to make the decision Hohaia has, he may not feel in a position to be so forceful he could very well still be playing and this conversation could be a lot more tragic.

But condemning Saints on the back of an interview is just silly. Of course we can show some sympathy to LH but he has totally gone about this the wrong way and may end up biting him hard in the long run.
We don't know as an absolute what Saints did or did not do, they say they have records (of presumably medical treatments/procedures). What they were and how effective these would be relating to the symptoms again is guesswork here.
As I said I don't doubt that Saints have followed some protocols and procedures, where they enough to get to the bottom of things, was there someone qualified or put forward to speak to LH to try ascertain if there were issues that might have somehow beigf overlooked, we won't know.
Only if this goes further and facts outed about what happened from both parties POV could you make any true judgement and that will probably end in a court.
Unless LH doesn't press further and Saints let the accusations fall by the way which I really can't see happening.
A whole world of shat all round

Morality is irrelevant.

His decision to retire was not solely due to the injuries from the Flower punch. If it was, he could easily sue Flower. This would never happen though. You have multiple cases in the world of football whereby the court has failed to accept another player legitimately ended another players career, negligent, yes, deliberate no. I think Paul Elliott, Dean Saunders case is testament to this.

I have no doubt Lance will be part of the Rugby League unions and have insurance policies to protect against loss of earnings.
Saints, by their statement stood by him, proved him with the best care possible. This was their obligation, you cannot pay him after he resigned. Just because it is sport doesn't mean it holds sway in any other way than civvy street.

fantasy.

Quote: Towns88 "icon_biggrin.gif How would you know, you goose? I was there at Le Wembley restaurant after a Catalans vs St Helens match, with Sean Long and Jayson Cayless as well as Eammon McManus, and the French television crew led by Rodolphe Pires. Several of us gave up part of our steaks because the restaurant had run out of steaks by the time Eammon and his colleague had ordered. As I wrote earlier, I will never give Eammon anything ever again, because of the way his club has treated Lancelot Hohaia. https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_ ... illon.html

Quote: Towns88 "icon_biggrin.gif How would you know, you goose? I was there at Le Wembley restaurant after a Catalans vs St Helens match, with Sean Long and Jayson Cayless as well as Eammon McManus, and the French television crew led by Rodolphe Pires. Several of us gave up part of our steaks because the restaurant had run out of steaks by the time Eammon and his colleague had ordered. As I wrote earlier, I will never give Eammon anything ever again, because of the way his club has treated Lancelot Hohaia. https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_ ... illon.html

Great story!