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Quote: Aboveusonlypie "I always like the Willows. I liked the fact that you could park your car for free a few minutes from the ground. The atmosphere was good and the facilities just fine.'"


I think you are looking back with rose-tinted glasses there - I loved the Willows too, but the reality was that the reputation of the area (justified or not) was seriously discouraging many away fans from attending. Stories of vandalism to cars, harrassment etc abounded - don't know how far back the RLFans archives go but there were plenty of such stories after every game.

The RFL made it clear that franchise renewal was dependent upon moving to a new stadium so for better or for worse we did. The financial woes of the old club are well known, the development company initially set up to do the move went bust and the club was left with virtually no option but to accept the Peel Holdings/Council take over of the whole project and now we are where we are. All in all a sorry tale.

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No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.:



Quote: Super cas "My apologies if this has already been said.

Hull FC- For reasons stated above
HKR - Big fan base, Decent size stadium with a great club history
Cas- Again a good fan base which would be greatly improved with a move to a new stadium. History not so good but a reputation for bringing good local lads through.
Wakefield- As above.

'"


Not like a Castleford follower to start yet another anti-Koukash thread.Must make a change from the Twatter drivel.If you are not happy with your owner;unlucky.As for the other clubs,in Jan 2013 they all had owners in place and are geographically some distance from St Helens.

Quote: Super cas ""The guy is a complete tool. His rants are embarassing. IMO he came in with the expectation of throwing a few quid at the club and making them instantly successful.I really dont think he will last until the end of next year and its the Salford fans I feel sorry for'"


Does your opinion also extend to his interest in his other love;horse racing? Did he expect to throw a few quid at horse racing and become instantly successful? Do you also expect him to last until the end of next year with his horse racing?

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Quote: BartonFlyer "I think you are looking back with rose-tinted glasses there - I loved the Willows too, but the reality was that the reputation of the area (justified or not) was seriously discouraging many away fans from attending. Stories of vandalism to cars, harrassment etc abounded - don't know how far back the RLFans archives go but there were plenty of such stories after every game.

The RFL made it clear that franchise renewal was dependent upon moving to a new stadium so for better or for worse we did. The financial woes of the old club are well known, the development company initially set up to do the move went bust and the club was left with virtually no option but to accept the Peel Holdings/Council take over of the whole project and now we are where we are. All in all a sorry tale.'"

You're probably right. Though I never had any problems, doesn't mean others didn't. I've been to the new ground a number of times now including pre season, internationals , the world cup and the Super League games and I can honestly say it's my least favourite away ground. The parking hasn't stopped me going but I'm always amazed that there seems to be twice as many cars as punters! When you get in - the ground is empty!!!

Such a shame. Anyway back to the Doc. I like the guy. He thinks outside the box and does things differently. He has been a success as a racehorse owner, so it seems a bit odd that he should throw his money into RL. But he seems genuinely smitten with the game. I think people need to cut him some slack. I would hate it if the game lost him. But really, why does he need the hassle?

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Quote: Angelic Cynic "Does your opinion also extend to his interest in his other love;horse racing? Did he expect to throw a few quid at horse racing and become instantly successful? Do you also expect him to last until the end of next year with his horse racing?'"


hmmmmm, i may be wrong here but horse racing isnt rugby league so is completely irrelevant to my opinion on him and his ownership of Salford.....

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Quote: Angelic Cynic "Not like a Castleford follower to start yet another anti-Koukash thread.Must make a change from the Twatter drivel.If you are not happy with your owner;unlucky.As for the other clubs,in Jan 2013 they all had owners in place and are geographically some distance from St Helens.

Please highlight the part where I mentioned that I was not currently happy with our current ownership. For the record Mr Fulton has time and time again dug deep to save our club and for that I'm eternally grateful to him and his family. If and hopefully when we get our new stadium the consensus between following Cas fans seems to be that there needs to be some sort of acknowledgement to Jack be it the road leading up to the stadium or a stand named after him to in some way pay tribute to what he has done for our club.

As for the twitter drivel you mention then I cant answer that as I do not use it and even if I did would that mean I share other Cas fans views? I think not. I also think you may struggle to find any anti Salford comments from myself on this forum. I am simply stating my opinion on what I feel is a relevant matter about a very influential figure in the modern game of rugby league. If you don't like my views then please choose to ignore them or give a more substantiated response.

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I don't mind the Dr he really needs a pr person of some description to calm him down sometimes, and I always wonder why would bag happended if he had bought Bradford during their decline ofr if his wife had been given the charge of the club when we went into admin last year.

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Quote: Super cas "My apologies if this has already been said.

This bloke must be absolutely kicking himself. Why did someone not advise him that taking on Salford would be a massive money pit? Surely investing in a club like Hull FC who have their nice big stadium which with the right personnel and coach at the helm would be a massive draw for new fans (or old ones that have lost faith in the current regime) They would be looking at 15k plus crowds week in week out. They would legitimately be able to spend max salary cap and take their pick of a marquee signing.

A massive brain explosion by the Dr picking Salford just because they were cheap. There is a reason for this and the Maximum 4-5000 crowds whoever plays for them is this reason. Far too much competition in Manchester for this ever to work.

I have absolutely nothing against Salford and I really feel for their loyal fans of whom posts like this must really annoy. But if they are honest with themselves they can do nothing but agree. It was great that he saved them from oblivion but how much longer can he substantiate throwing good money after bad.

If and when he leaves Salford in the mire where do we think he may end up? Also would you want him at your club?

I think he would make a real difference at

His choice of Salford was probably to do with timing, HullFC weren't available back in 2013, Adam Pearson bought us at the end of 2011 and back then we were dreaming and spending big, if he was just entering the game now I reckon Pearson would be tempted with the right offer for Hull. He could have also have got Bradford (multiple SL winners lets not forget) on the cheap last year too, but he didn't and he's stuck either gambling on Salford working, or pulling out and probably leaving them to collapse.

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I have an oft repeated theory about the failings of clubs on a commercial footing, stemming from a failure to attract fans. Obviously, London and no Salford face massive competition for the interest and cash of the local public, but there does seem to be a one-eyed attitude that was displayed by David Hughes at London and is to a certain extent, being copied by the Doctor. It's not a fault that you can blame either man for having, but it is the root cause of their respective issues.

It's quite simple really. They LOVE RL. They want RL to grow because they LOVE it and they are prepared to sink cash into their clubs to make them grow, but neither understand the principle that:

"JUST BECAUSE THEY LOVE IT, IT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE ELSE WILL"

I have also referred to this as "field of dreams" marketing scenarios......as in, if we build it they will come......well, Like Hughes discovered spending 15+ million over 6 seasons, if you don't spend a fair chunk of that on engaging your audience and repeating the message, instead splashing out on coaches and players, then you'll reap what you sew.

Simply put, a club with 4k fans playing in a stadium that looks empty will not attract either corporates or sponsors, but a team playing to 10,000 fans, screaming their lungs out in support of their team will attract sponsors and corporates and media interest and then more fans.

If you doubt my theory, Dr K has splashed cash on players and coaches and yet has less fans than before and nothing to show for it other than not being relegated and a trip to Sheffield in the middle 8 this year.....

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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection." 23/08/2014:



Tbh with the whole "competing with football" thing. Whilst true obviously as it is the number 1 sport in the country, right now you can hear the discontent of football fans. Their is a lot of fans seemingly falling out of love with the game because of the feeling of clubs becoming businesses and ticket prices going higher and higher and a general feeling off not caring about the fans along with a growing dislike of the 'modern' premiership footballer.

Those reasons are things RL clubs should look at and try take advantage of to perhaps attract fans from football to RL. I'm not saying it would be easy but at the same time I don't clubs should just accept that they couldn't steal some fans from football at this point in time.

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Quote: ThePrinter "Tbh with the whole "competing with football" thing. Whilst true obviously as it is the number 1 sport in the country, right now you can hear the discontent of football fans. Their is a lot of fans seemingly falling out of love with the game because of the feeling of clubs becoming businesses and ticket prices going higher and higher and a general feeling off not caring about the fans along with a growing dislike of the 'modern' premiership footballer.

Those reasons are things RL clubs should look at and try take advantage of to perhaps attract fans from football to RL. I'm not saying it would be easy but at the same time I don't clubs should just accept that they couldn't steal some fans from football at this point in time.'"

I agree to a degree. I think we've often thought that Union is a natural place to entice fans from whereas I think football clubs and fans are a better fit.

However the problem the likes of Salford face isn't really in enticing football fans per se its in competing with football for media in Manchester and getting noticed by the people of Manchester when, understandably, it's dominated by football.

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Quote: ThePrinter "Tbh with the whole "competing with football" thing. Whilst true obviously as it is the number 1 sport in the country, right now you can hear the discontent of football fans. Their is a lot of fans seemingly falling out of love with the game because of the feeling of clubs becoming businesses and ticket prices going higher and higher and a general feeling off not caring about the fans along with a growing dislike of the 'modern' premiership footballer.

Those reasons are things RL clubs should look at and try take advantage of to perhaps attract fans from football to RL. I'm not saying it would be easy but at the same time I don't clubs should just accept that they couldn't steal some fans from football at this point in time.'"

Becoming a FAN is not something that happens overnight. You attend your first game......you maybe return the following week or week after but true FANDOM comes from regular attendance.
the Largest advertiser (by spend) on the planet says you are a simple consumer for your first 6 purchases of their products, but a CUSTOMER once you've bought for the 7th time......and thereafter, they will spend more to keep you than they will a 4th time buyer.

It's like drug dealing without the drugs.....

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Koukash has three main problems -
he thinks the answer to everything is throw money at it- I suspect because that's how he lives his life.
he talks too much.
he makes promises he can't or doesn't keep. It will never happen again, I will break the salary cap, we will be a top 4 side, there will be no free tickets, etc etc.
Personally I find him to be undignified.
There are a number of players who have or are requesting to leave the club which suggests that they are not satisfied with the way things are being done.

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Quote: Him "I agree to a degree. I think we've often thought that Union is a natural place to entice fans from whereas I think football clubs and fans are a better fit.

However the problem the likes of Salford face isn't really in enticing football fans per se its in competing with football for media in Manchester and getting noticed by the people of Manchester when, understandably, it's dominated by football.'"

For Rugby League to get noticed in Manchester we must follow footballs example and go into all areas of Manchester with junior development. Once parents who perhaps are not Rugby League fans start to see their children play Rugby League they will show an interest in the game.
Yes it will cost money and yes it will take a long time, but this is want it needs to be done. Perhaps Dr Koukash and some of his business friends could be tempted to fund it or even part fund it.

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Quote: Jim Pooley "Becoming a FAN is not something that happens overnight. You attend your first game......you maybe return the following week or week after but true FANDOM comes from regular attendance.
the Largest advertiser (by spend) on the planet says you are a simple consumer for your first 6 purchases of their products, but a CUSTOMER once you've bought for the 7th time......and thereafter, they will spend more to keep you than they will a 4th time buyer.

It's like drug dealing without the drugs.....'"

Koucash has allegedly offered free entry to the next game. I've heard marketing experts repeated say that cheap (or free) tickets is not a way for long term growth.

There never seems to be much thought or planning in Marwan's way forward. The likelihood is, he'll give away free entry to the Catalan game, 90% of the crowd wil be the same old species, just not paying. Once the cost goes back on, then

However, what if he introduced some sort of system where locals applied for a free season ticket for next year, or perhaps some sort of family ticket where kids go free (Designate one stand to it, it not like their struggling for space).
Split the season into sections of X number of games. Your free weekly ticket lasts for say the first 6 home games (half the regular weekly rounds), then you have to reapply. If you have attended 4 out of the 6 games, then you get an free renewal to last for the second half of weekly rounds - if you attend 4 out of the last 5 fixtures, you get a free pass to the play off/super 8 home games.

Do the ticket for free for next year, 20% RPP the year later, 40% in 2018, 60%, 80% and then in 5 years you've hopefully completed gathering a half decent, loyal and partisan home crowd.

AN expert may think the above is a terrible plan, but any long term plan is better than leaving the gates open, then complaining on twitter if no one walks through them.

Giving free ticket to schools is noble, but an afternoon of rugby camp for the local school kids followed by free entry to the game is better, if you want to build a lifetime relationship with these people.

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Quote: Him "I agree to a degree. I think we've often thought that Union is a natural place to entice fans from whereas I think football clubs and fans are a better fit.

However the problem the likes of Salford face isn't really in enticing football fans per se its in competing with football for media in Manchester and getting noticed by the people of Manchester when, understandably, it's dominated by football.'"

Not sure I agree with this. Rugby League is well covered in the MEN and also very well covered on Radio Manchester. It does get its' fair share of space. Marwan even has a column in the MEN.

The media aren't the problem. It's a football city - the people just aren't interested in RL. I'd guess that cricket is way ahead of RL too.

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WSL2024 8 WiganW12-16St.HelensW
SL 17 Wigan16-12St.Helens
Thu 11th Jul
NRL 19 Dolphins36-28Souths
SL 17 Warrington30-18Leeds
Sun 7th Jul
NRL 18 Sydney42-12St.George
NRL 18 Canberra12-16Newcastle
SL 16 Salford22-20Hull FC
CH 14 Dewsbury16-20Doncaster
CH 14 Featherstone66-0Whitehaven
CH 14 Swinton24-12Widnes
CH 14 Wakefield34-12Batley
CH 14 York54-12Barrow
L1 14 Newcastle0-44Workington
L1 14 Crusaders18-32Midlands
L1 14 Keighley20-20Rochdale
WSL2024 7 Wire W10-32Hudds W
WSL2024 7 York V44-0BarrowW
Sat 6th Jul
NRL 18 Canterbury13-12NZ Warriors
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 16 443 182 261 28
Warrington 17 436 231 205 24
St.Helens 17 441 186 255 22
Hull KR 16 397 217 180 22
Salford 16 317 308 9 22
Catalans 16 304 234 70 20
 
Leeds 17 309 316 -7 18
Huddersfield 16 298 365 -67 12
Leigh 15 270 250 20 11
Castleford 17 280 455 -175 11
Hull FC 16 218 496 -278 4
LondonB 17 176 649 -473 2
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 14 520 154 366 28
Sheffield 14 382 217 165 22
Bradford 14 353 230 123 19
Toulouse 13 344 186 158 17
Widnes 14 327 269 58 15
Featherstone 14 396 283 113 14
 
Doncaster 14 257 341 -84 13
York 15 339 305 34 12
Batley 14 217 320 -103 12
Swinton 14 284 344 -60 10
Halifax 14 270 405 -135 10
Whitehaven 14 266 424 -158 10
Barrow 13 215 393 -178 10
Dewsbury 15 184 439 -255 2
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