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| Ever four at a minimum... I would prefer five yeas between events.
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| Quote: Pinkerton "Well maybe we should start building the Four Nations up a bit more then. No disrespect, but we shouldn't be playing England internationals in Leigh, Salford, Warrington etc anymore. We should be playing out of Elland Road, Etihad, Bramall Lane, Villa Park, Wembley, Old Trafford etc. and build up the promotion of the event like we did with the WC. It's also important we stay on the BBC, maybe SSN will ignore us, but it's worth it to get to more viewers and importantly, more sponsors.
I read on twitter that from the 4 Nations 2014 up until RLWC 2017, all internationals will be on Premier Sports, with just the England games on BBC. I really hope that isn't the case, because we need the whole of the WC on BBC and not just England games and we can't afford to hide the International game away on PS.'"
Where we play the games is defined by the expected quality of the opposition and the competitiveness of the match, improve the quality of the NH nations and bigger venues will be required and used
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| Quote: Old Blighty "Ever four at a minimum... I would prefer five yeas between events.'"
Five would then put us in conflict with other major events, we now have our own ' slot ' in the calender, now it just requires hard work and investement
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| Quote: Starbug "Five would then put us in conflict with other major events, we now have our own ' slot ' in the calender, now it just requires hard work and investement'"
We've got our own slot and a set international rugby league schedule for the first time in what must be a long time. Ok it's only one event so far but that's a step forward compared to having none.
Our next step should be to organise other events (tours, 4/5/6 nations etc) to be included in a regular international schedule.
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| Quote: Him "
Yes that is the next step, providing a concerted but sensible effort is made to develop the various ' minor ' nations that have taken part in this WC, if we now see the Italian,USA and various South Sea Island nations revert back to putting out teams of amatuers, then what was the point of having artificially strengthened teams over here
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| One of the reason's this WC has been so successful is because there hasn't been one over here for so long. The international game becomes stale when it's the same events over and over.
People are getting carried away with this tournament's success and think all of a sudden mid season European 6 Nation tournaments and more frequent WCs will just take off, when in reality it won't. We have 3 nations that are head and shoulders above any other team and it is very unlikely that any of the others are going to catch up any time soon.
The elite teams need a settled international calendar featuring Tours, 4N and World Cups, whilst also increasing the number of emerging nations fixtures. Personally I would look at working on a five year cycle with a the 5th being a one year break from international tournaments, replaced with an extended World Club competition, though I appreciate that would be unpopular with a lot of people.
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| WC every 4 years
Tri Nations in between...with a mini home nations qualifying event.
Wales, Scotland Ireland and France battle it out for the right to play England....winner of that enters the tri-nations v AUS and NZ.
Or have a combined Celtic nations team and a combined Pacific Islands team enter against Eng, Aus and NZ....5 team mini tournament.
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| Quote: WARRIORCRAIG "One of the reason's this WC has been so successful is because there hasn't been one over here for so long. The international game becomes stale when it's the same events over and over. <snip>'"
Seen a lot of posters say something along these lines. How do you explain the sell out crowds for the Six Nations every year?
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| Quote: RLBandit "Seen a lot of posters say something along these lines. How do you explain the sell out crowds for the Six Nations every year?'"
The same reason there was 67,000+ at Twickenham yesterday watching Barbarians v Fiji. RL doesn't have the international profile union does, but the answer to this isn't to simply increase the number or regularity of fixtures, because we don't have a decent number of international teams who can compete at the highest level.
England v Wales, England v France etc have much more appeal in RU than in RL. I say that through gritted teeth, because I hate RU, but games where the outcome is already known before kick off aren't appealing in the slightest.
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| Quote: WARRIORCRAIG "One of the reason's this WC has been so successful is because there hasn't been one over here for so long. The international game becomes stale when it's the same events over and over.
People are getting carried away with this tournament's success and think all of a sudden mid season European 6 Nation tournaments and more frequent WCs will just take off, when in reality it won't. We have 3 nations that are head and shoulders above any other team and it is very unlikely that any of the others are going to catch up any time soon.
The elite teams need a settled international calendar featuring Tours, 4N and World Cups, whilst also increasing the number of emerging nations fixtures. Personally I would look at working on a five year cycle with a the 5th being a one year break from international tournaments, replaced with an extended World Club competition, though I appreciate that would be unpopular with a lot of people.'"
I agree but I think you've got to start competitions like a European 6 Nations and stick with them, make it clear it WILL be every year. The problems, in my opinion, with other competitions that have been tried (Yorks v Lancs, Tri/4 Nations etc) is that no-one knows when they're going to be played again, so you get less of a commitment from fans, players, clubs and media.
We've also got to get more "emerging nations" playing in the top tier competitions. A 4 Nations doesn't do much at all for the 4th Nation because they're staring down the barrell of 3 heavy defeats. Especially when the 4th Nation changes each time.
I'd go with a continuous 8-year International cycle6 Nations in UK & France
- England, Australia, New Zealand, France, Wales & Pacific Islands Qualifying Competition winner.
- 5 games then Final
- 1st games to be England v Australia & Wales v Pacific Islands nation double header at Cardiff. Plus France v New Zealand in France.
- Final, at a large stadium maybe Old Trafford but could be overkill? Maybe Man City? Maybe Olympic Stadium?
GB Lions Tour of Australia
- 40 man squad
- 6 games
- 3 Tests v Australia, 1 game v PNG, 1 game v Fiji, 1 game v NRL winners
NZ Tour of UK
- 6 games
- 3 Tests v GB, 1 game v France, 1 game v Wales, 1 game v SL winners
6 Nations down under
- Same format but with England, Australia, NZ, Fiji, PNG & European Qualifying Competition winner.
Australia Tour of UK
- same format as NZ Tour
GB Lions Tour of New Zealand
- 6 games
- 3 Tests v NZ, 1 game v PNG, 1 game v Fiji, 1 game v NZ Warriors
Mid- season European 6 Nations
- England, France, Wales, Scotland, Ireland & Italy
- 5 games, top of the table wins
- mid week games so will only take 3 weeks
- Double headers where applicable
- to be arranged with NRL so as to make NRL players available, possible rescheduling of State of Origin into 3 week period
I think the GB tours and 6 Nations are very "do-able". The European 6 Nations is the biggest step/leap of faith. But I think we have to do it. RL has had more media coverage in the last 6 weeks than in the last 6 years combined. We aren't in the position of football where the domestic league(s) generate enough/such media interest so we have to prioritise the international game. The only way to improve the "other" nations is to play them regularly (see Italy RU), to play them regularly means a concrete set of fixtures that they can build around and toward.
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| Quote: Him "I agree but I think you've got to start competitions like a European 6 Nations and stick with them, make it clear it WILL be every year. The problems, in my opinion, with other competitions that have been tried (Yorks v Lancs, Tri/4 Nations etc) is that no-one knows when they're going to be played again, so you get less of a commitment from fans, players, clubs and media.
We've also got to get more "emerging nations" playing in the top tier competitions. A 4 Nations doesn't do much at all for the 4th Nation because they're staring down the barrell of 3 heavy defeats. Especially when the 4th Nation changes each time.
I'd go with a continuous 8-year International cycle6 Nations in UK & France
- England, Australia, New Zealand, France, Wales & Pacific Islands Qualifying Competition winner.
- 5 games then Final
- 1st games to be England v Australia & Wales v Pacific Islands nation double header at Cardiff. Plus France v New Zealand in France.
- Final, at a large stadium maybe Old Trafford but could be overkill? Maybe Man City? Maybe Olympic Stadium?
GB Lions Tour of Australia
- 40 man squad
- 6 games
- 3 Tests v Australia, 1 game v PNG, 1 game v Fiji, 1 game v NRL winners
NZ Tour of UK
- 6 games
- 3 Tests v GB, 1 game v France, 1 game v Wales, 1 game v SL winners
6 Nations down under
- Same format but with England, Australia, NZ, Fiji, PNG & European Qualifying Competition winner.
Australia Tour of UK
- same format as NZ Tour
GB Lions Tour of New Zealand
- 6 games
- 3 Tests v NZ, 1 game v PNG, 1 game v Fiji, 1 game v NZ Warriors
Mid- season European 6 Nations
- England, France, Wales, Scotland, Ireland & Italy
- 5 games, top of the table wins
- mid week games so will only take 3 weeks
- Double headers where applicable
- to be arranged with NRL so as to make NRL players available, possible rescheduling of State of Origin into 3 week period
I think the GB tours and 6 Nations are very "do-able". The European 6 Nations is the biggest step/leap of faith. But I think we have to do it. RL has had more media coverage in the last 6 weeks than in the last 6 years combined. We aren't in the position of football where the domestic league(s) generate enough/such media interest so we have to prioritise the international game. The only way to improve the "other" nations is to play them regularly (see Italy RU), to play them regularly means a concrete set of fixtures that they can build around and toward.'"
A mid-season European event would be as poorly attended as the Exiles games are, and would be much less competitive. Plus what do all the non-international SL players do in that 3 week period? The NRL might not want to rearrange SoO, so that rules out any NRL players coming over to play in it, so suddenly the majority of the teams are made up of part-time players. Teams playing more regularly won't all of sudden make them better, we need to increase the player pool in the developing RL countries, and they need to play more matches against other developing nations. Italy, Ireland etc getting wallopped every year benefits nobody.
For the forseeable we are going to be limited to end of season tournaments. We just need to ensure that there are matches for the emerging nations to be playing in alongside the elite ones.
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| Quote: WARRIORCRAIG "A mid-season European event would be as poorly attended as the Exiles games are, and would be much less competitive. Plus what do all the non-international SL players do in that 3 week period? The NRL might not want to rearrange SoO, so that rules out any NRL players coming over to play in it, so suddenly the majority of the teams are made up of part-time players. Teams playing more regularly won't all of sudden make them better, we need to increase the player pool in the developing RL countries, and they need to play more matches against other developing nations. Italy, Ireland etc getting wallopped every year benefits nobody.
For the forseeable we are going to be limited to end of season tournaments. We just need to ensure that there are matches for the emerging nations to be playing in alongside the elite ones.'"
Spot on. As much as people enjoyed the World Cup lets not forget only 12 months ago we had a Tri Nations event with England/Wales/France and many slaughtered that competition. A main gripe was the one sided scorelines (as we saw again when England played Ireland) and you'd only see the same again. Can people really picture big crowds turning up year after year to see England win by 40-odd something to 6 every time?
And it would be an England team without its biggest stars like Tomkins, Graham, Burgess Brothers and possibly the new halfback moving forward Widdop. With more potentially to join the NRL over the years it'll be an England B team VS a team mostly made up of Championship players, and as for "benefitting" these just look at what Wales & France did in this World Cup after last years battering from England.
England vs Ireland might've got 20,000+ in the WC......it clearly wouldn't get anywhere near that if they arranged a mid-season game with them. People have often said in the last few weeks that this WC has shown that "there's an appetite for International RL".....well yes but you often have an appetite when you've been starved and a 13 year gap between English WC's provided that along with that added thought of not knowing for sure when we'd see another one over here.
Also I've seen mentioned is an extended WCC with a shortened SL season to help accommodate it. Whilst on paper that sounds fine for the likes of Leeds, Wigan, Wire, Saints etc. who are usually going to be in this bigger WCC and money lost from staging 2 less SL home games will probably be covered by money involved with competing in this WCC, what happens to the likes of your Castleford's, Widnes', Wakefield's, HKR's? Those teams who aren't ever realistically going to be in it. They lose 2 home games income. Not only that but will supporters of the WCC teams attend matches against these lower teams in the same numbers or save themselves and their money for matches against Melbourne, Sydney and Manly? Any new fans to the sport (who aren't geographically tied to a town/city) would more than likely become a supporter of the clubs in the WCC and thus widening the fan bases of the big boys and smaller clubs in a similar fashion (although not same scale obviously) to the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. in football with the Champions League and then the rest of the Premiership. If some people thought that some of the bottom half of the table clubs were simply making up the numbers then wait until after a few years of any extended WCC.
International RL is important for the sport but we can't go thinking and trying to make it carry the weight of the game over here simply because they aren't enough good teams. We have 3 main teams and the rest are a few levels behind. Compare with RU and Cricket who have up to around 10 competitive nations and that's the big difference and why they can have fuller International calendars. How do you think these sports would cope if they only realistically had Eng/Aus/NZ at International and everything else a long way off? Can you imagine if we had a South African team that was as strong in our sport as it is in the other two sports? A French and Welsh team that were as competitive as their RU counterparts?
Until we get more good teams at that level then we cannot put too much on International RL. It's how we make these other countries improve that is the question. Would heavy scorelines against the big 3 every year do it? Unlikely IMO. One of the reasons the WC was successful was because of the way the groups were laid out. Arguably the part of the competition fans enjoyed most was the Group Stages, whereas the part of the tournament that disappointed most was the Quarter Finals when the big 3 went 136-10 against the smaller sides. And if you take away the games they played each other then the big 3 went 506-58 from 11 games against lower sides.
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| Agree with everything Starbug has to say, we should make it every 4 years and work other tournaments round it.
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| First of all, a hefty pat on the back for everyone involved in the world cup, it has certainly proved all the doubters wrong and the supporters across the UK (and France) have got right behind the comp and helped to make it a massive success.
Despite the success of the tournament, the simple facts are that there are only 3 top level international teams and the "second tier" are still some way behind.
Although not popular with many, we need to try and help the French improve and this can only be achieved by increasing the numbers of French players in SL, therefore, should we be inviting Toulouse to join SL, maybe in place of London ?
The one certainty is that the game needs a clear strategy on how to improve the international game and to really drive things forward, it would have to need to take priority over the domestic game, which is the major hurdle.
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| Quote: Pinkerton "Well Peacock and Ray French were adamant we must bring back GB tours for the game to prosper, but I couldn't disagree more. The fringe nations like Fiji, France, PNG, Wales and USA must be given a chance to play the top sides regularly. I'd even consider making the Four Nations into a Five Nations and having some sort of European Championships competition. Unfortunately, the dinosaurs will decide GB playing Australia every year is what's required.'"
This is a recurring theme for many English fans. The return of full GB tours will help the finances of the RFL but will do absolutely nothing for the growth of the game.
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