Its not the 'new shiny tin' which is important. Fact is that grounds get, attendances. If Wakefield or Cas were, or ever had been, able to get crowds which made top level fully pro, rugby league sustainable then no-one would really care where they were playing. But they arent getting those crowds, and havent shown that they will get them, especially in those stadiums which actively put people off.

People dont want Cas and Wakefield to move for the sake of it, its so that Cas and Wakefield are clubs which can spend the full SC, a bigger, SC, can promote the game, can bring new fans and players through, so that they arent just surviving at the bottom of SL with teams full of substandard imports.

Have a go at Odsal all you want, but there is a real and obvious quantitative measure of Odsal, Wheldon Road and Belle Vue, one which shows that numerous times over the last 15 years, Bradford have had an average gate at odsal, which is more than either Wheldon Road or Belle Vue could physically hold.

Remind me again, which club has just gone ' tits up ' ?

Yeah, thats the argument to take when comparing Bradford to Wakefield and Cas.

Remind me how many imports Cas had last season?
Remind me how many we have this season?
Remind me how many homegrown players we have?

Now compare and contrast with other clubs.

Wakefield Tigers

Castleford Wildcats

or

West Riding Wild-Tiger Cats

Bradford didnt charge peanuts, and they had great attendances for many many seasons.

Remind me where you finished?
Remind me the last time they qualified for the play-offs?
Remind me when the last time they contested a final, never mind won one?

Now compare and contrast with other clubs.

2009 last time we made play-offs. Incidentally, which was shorter in time than Bradford, whom you were buttering up earlier.

2007 - we won the National League Grand Final. HTH.

2012 imports - 4
2013 imports - 5
No idea how many, probably quite a few, which is laudable, but the quality of many of these homegrown players obviously isn't very high. Anyone can fill a team with homegrown players and finish near the bottom of the table, the challenge is to produce enough quality homegrown players.

Castlefield Wilders.

Closely related to Joan.

and before that? 9 years wasnt it? definitely a comparable record to 4 time SL champions Bradford Bulls.
Maybe i should have been clearer,Remind me when the last time they contested a professional final, never mind won one?

2012: Grehan (left midway through season), Chase (if you can count him), Youngquest, Millington, McGoldrick (left midway through season).

2013: Chase (if you can count him), Millington, Webster, Hauraki and Carney.

Homegrown players: Owen, Shenton, Clark, Huby, Walker, Milner, Holmes, Massey, Thompson, Clare, Johnston (all played SL) plus all promoted youngsters.

So Smokey's statement about "surviving at the bottom of SL with teams full of substandard imports" is totally and utterly incorrect.

We're not merely surviving. We have been competitive and can be competitive - we had one bad season last year. And it's not because it's full of substandard imports at all. Perhaps if we had filled our team of substandard imports (or imports) a la other sides, we may have finished higher in the table?

2002.

1994 - Regal Trophy and Rugby League Premiership final.

But then that statement applies for the majority of rugby league teams outside of Wigan, Leeds, St Helens and Warrington.

Bradford have vastly gone downhill since their successes at the beginning of SL and FWIW, no one is questioning their value in terms of size compared to someone like Cas.

Only Hull, Hudds and Catalans have managed to reach a major final outside of those teams (and Sheffield and London once). That's not for the sake of saying we could have been there. We missed out 2011 and in 1999 with CC and play-offs.

So nothing in the professional era then?

So to count, in the 16 seasons of fully pro RL, Cas have 3 play-off appearances, 0 finals and 2 relegations.

That isnt good enough. More is expected.