Can Cadoo please clarify whether Mike McIlorum is top class or world class, just so I'm crystal on what it is I'm laughing at?

Brett Finch has bounced around the NRL Clubs without any wanting to hold on to him for more than a season or two. He moved to England because it was his last option to play first grade Rugby League.

As has been said, watch the Fev - Wigan cc game. You hardly knew him and Finch were playing.

That's how to stop Sam Tomkins

You guys have got it all muddled up...Sam tomkins is a lookalike actor working at a dis-functional hotel in spain, and wigans fullback is a guy called liam with a transvestite father from Benidorm...

Or swap Finch and Leuluai for Rangi Chase and Kevin Sinfield

I quite like the Fev idea of playing every game in a mud bath, but its probably not the best way to create a team capable of beating Australia.

FWIW, answering my own question, I think you try not to worry about him. His effectiveness multiplies quickly if Wigan dominate other areas, leading to broken defensive patterns. When he's played against Aus, GBs attacking structure is far less sophisticated than Wigan's (and to be fair most of the top SL sides) and the Aus defence is far better than the average SL side. Totally agree with the Chase/Sinfield comment. Drifting off topic here, but we need to pick the best *team*, not just find a way of getting the 'best' 17 players wedged into the side somehow. Wane for England

This. If people start bombing the hell out of him with good bombs (that's easier than it sounds given the play making selections of many players in SL) and he starts missing them like he can then it'll force the pies to re-evaluate whether they can keep him there. At the moment nobody has really applied that kind of pressure.

As for stopping him with the ball in structured play that's difficult because at the moment his team's timing on runs is exceptional. You can tell the difference when watching the game last night and how off the timing of runs was, particularly outside of Rangi Chase. Compare that with the synchronicity of the game at Manchester when Tomkins was often running at a depleted threequarter line with several supporting options available to him. That said our defences are pretty weak over here this season and that extra space teams are giving him is lethal.

I was being a tad cheeky with the Chase/Sinfield reference. The issue with his England form is much more down to the coach and the attack structures that he has (or doesn't have) in place. Wigan's attacking set moves are mostly designed to give Tomkins the ball at 3rd reciever with space to run into, which he can then exploit. With McNamara in charge, England don't seem to have any set moves whatsoever! Hopefully we'll see that change in the upcoming Exiles game but I'm not holding my breath. I have a degree of sympathy in that McNamara has a very limited number of training sessions to put systems in place, whereas at Wigan the timing and structure will get worked on on a daily basis throughout the season but even just a little attacking organisation and ball movement is much better than five drives for a crap kick

Banana couldn't coach a turd out of his own backside

The problem in the 4 nations was the team was too structured for the likes of Tomkins & Chase to really shine, not to mention everything seemingly HAD to go through Sinfield, with players like Chase & Tomkins you want to be playing a more off the cuff style, play with freedom and not boring structured and predictable rubbish the Aussies handled with ease.

I wasn't impressed with Chase when he played for England, and I was even less impressed with him in the Cup tie at Fev. Fev contained him absolutely, so absolutely that he lost his rag and broke Ropati's jaw. The first time I saw Tomkins play for England at Elland Road in 2009 I was very impressed, he and Burgess combined brilliantly. The problem was that neither they nor the team could do it for 80 minutes.
Sinfield is probably the best all round footballer we have in this country. The England problem (IMO) as someone else said is the coach who doesn't know his from his elbow.

Forget Super League, Wigan v Saints derbys, Grand Finals, Challenge cup finals and internationals.....




A true test of a world class player seems to be against Featherstone Rovers on a muddy pitch.

Not sure how this thread ended up including Chase - for me he's nowhere near the same class as Tomkins.