I do fear we are weak. Our big men in the pack are ageing and slowing, we have no threequarters or half-backs of note. If we play a serious / full on Australia (either Saturday or in the final if we manage to get there) I reckon we'll lose by 60.

Well most Aussies rate Ellis twice as good as those two players. Also Westwood looked very good against Wales. I'm more hopeful we'll win, but i think we've got a better chance than we've had in recent years.

Yes, I was impressed by Westwood.

Australia will win because simply there defence is a lot better. I look at the Aussie side and I can see them when needed defending there line and repeat sets. With England I just dont think they will be able to not concede when under sustained pressure.

If England fall behind early then it could be a hammering!

I expect Australia to win. What I want to see is England compete for the whole game, score some points through good play, not let in soft tries, and not lose heavily. A narrow defeat, whilst obviously not as good as a win, would do wonders for the team's confidence.

How many England players would get in the Aussie side? Therein lies your answer - there is no substitute for ability.

The Aussies win because they make less mistakes and the do the simple stuff really well. England's technique and grasp of the basics is far worse than either the Aussies or the Kiwis. It is a bit like our soccer players the lack of technique is embarrassing for professional athletes - It only becomes obvious when you see them at international level. England looked OK because Wales were so bad, anyone who is using this as a form line is deluded. England will never come up against as poor a centre as they did on Saturday.

With Kiwis you have a chance because they are not always mentally switched on, the Aussies are always mentally strong.

I expect a 30 point gap in favour of the Aussies.

Father Ted, as ever, is right: there's no way we can beat Australia with the magnificent Willie Tonga in the team.

Oh no, hang on... he's already been ruled out of the rest of the tournament. And Lawrence looked poor the other night.

With the right plays, we can expose Australia out wide, just as NZ did the other night.

How on earth do England think they will cope with Williams? Moreover, how will we score with zero creativity on offer?

I agree - things like passing accuracy usually let England / GB down. It's those split seconds that make the difference between scoring and not. However, whilst Australia are much better, the Kiwis are usually sloppy and we should be able to beat them if we are disciplined.

The thing that stands has stood out for me watching Australia previously is the speed of their defensive line. England really struggle to match this and often it's why I think we struggle to make ground coming out of our own half and why we often look like we lack ideas and creativity up their end of the field.

When Australia have the ball our defensive line has been slower giving them more time to select the right pass, they attack with precision and often end up scoring what looks like easy tries created by the speed and slickness of handling that we struggle to produce due to the pressure of their defensive line.

Having said that I do think we have the players who can make the half breaks that get their defence moving backwards and negate their defensive line speed so I think this will be closer than most of our recent encounters. Who knows we may even pinch it.

You could argue how many Manchester Utd players would get in the Manchester City team. But Utd will probably be lifting the title at the end of the season (and i hate Man U)

This is the problem with RL fans, we're writing our team off before they have stepped onto the field. We won't at our best on Saturday, but still put 40+ past Wales. I think everyone knows we have to improve to beat the Aussies, but i think we can reallyt get stuck in and compete.



Get probably the worlds best second-rower to cream him??

If the title were decided over the games between Man U and Man City Utd would not win the title. The 4 nations will be decided over the games between 3 teams.

How many Man U players would get in the Barcelona side? - it showed.

There is simply no substitute for ability and it will count on Saturday IMO. Unlike soccer where the team is over-hyped and never delivers - RL fans are being realistic about their chances. It is like England playing Spain at soccer i.e. an average side against the very best.

Have to say when I look back at the team that beat the Aussies in 1994 it makes me want to weep a little bit. What a cracking starting line-up...

Davies, Robinson, Connolly, Hunte, Offiah, Powell, Edwards, Harrison, Jackson, Joynt, Betts, Farrell, Clarke. Subs: Goulding, McDermott, Bateman, & Cassidy.

I think we'll play our backsides off but will get overpowered in the last 20. Hope I'm wrong.

Rubbish thread. Damo used to come up with at least 300 reasons.