That's a good summation for me.

There can only be one winner...

Murphy!

Johns might find himself more than halfway down the top ten list of greatest halfbacks ever.

I didn't bother with much detail earlier but Murphy's record is superb:-

1958 cutting up Australia
1960 World Cup winner
1962 cutting up Australia
1962 cutting up St George mid- 11 year straight title run
1966 refused to tour Aus/NZ when not given captaincy
1971 Leigh win CC
1974 Warrington win CC

1966 was one of the closest series ever...no Murphy was a massive loss for GB.

A stretch of high quality between 1958-1974 is a fair achievement for any player. He should have played more Tests in the end than he did.

Easier in what way? You mean they are quicker and stronger? Of course in the physical side of the game players of that era would struggle now because they were part time but why do we always compare eras by todays standards? Flip it the other way, how would Johns or any modern player cope with training only twice a week on a Tuesday and Thursday after a days difficult work, touring for 3 months playing a full catalogue of difficult games, the 5 yard rule meaning you needed skill to break the line not just using bulldozing forwards to eat up easy yards. Look at the 3rd Test in 1963 and say the game is 'easier' now, whatever that means.

Literally that.

Murphy single-handedly threatened the defence in 1958 and 1962 in a way Johns never did in his career. He literally tore holes in our (Australia's) defence including from defensive positions.

Millward?

Lockyer is better than Johns. More versatile and a better leader. cannot compare him to Murphy as it is impossible to make comparisons over such different era's.

For me Johns is one of the finest players I have ever seen.
But in saying that I personally think Brett Kenny is a better player.
My Dad and Grandad say that Murphy is the best RL player of all time.

I too have always been told from being a child that Murphy is the greatest RL player of all time by my Dad and both Grandads. Lockyer is probably the best player i've seen but i'm not particularly old.

Whether or not these older generation players were better than Johns I dont know, not seen them play never even seen clips of them play however, what Johns did to this sport was improve the standards set, kids looked up to him, they wanted to be just like him and the fact he spent longer on the training pitch than most players just so he was the best at what he did shows to me that he was a great player and deserves to be spoken of in the same thread as all these other great players.

As for his indescresions, having worked in a city centre bar I can quite honestly say there are a LARGE percentage of those that go out on a weekend take something that is illegal. Quite obviously these drugs did nothing to stop Johns being one of the greatest ever players to play this sport.

Genius five-eighth.

Probably between him, Bolton and Horne for the all-time best England 5/8th.

the pace of the game is so much faster, you have to run more, make more tackles

the skills of the opposing players is so much better so its much harder to stand out for a star player

the model T ford was the best car in its day but today a ferrari would kill it.

australian commentators all put johns ahead of both the king and bert.

lewis was a fantastic origin player, the best there ever was or will be

his international record was fantastic too

sadly he didnt achieve much in his career in the ARL competition with a star studded broncos side

indeed the broncos won their first premiership after sacking the king

had lewis come down to sydney when he was younger and won a competition he would have achieved it all.