Spot on, which is why so many fans at various games yell 'forward' for passes that are perfectly fine.

Well, that and the fact that it's traditional

And fun.

The physics argument is a complete red herring because it is perfectly possible to pass a ball backwards relative to the ground, and it happens regularly in all games, yes it takes more effort and skill to do it whilst running than it does to throw the ball forward relative to the ground but backwards relative to where the momentum of players may take them in the future (i.e. where the players will be at some point in future relative to where the position on the ground the pass was actually initiated), but then we reward players precisely because of they have certain skills.



Not if the player who completes the pass is stood in front of the position where the player who initiated the pass was stood when he initiated that pass. Under the current interpretation we are judging the start of the pass not from where it actually started, but from where the person who started it happens to be at a point in the future.

In all other instances direction on a rugby pitch is determined primarily relative to the ground, where the relative position of the players is used it is always in the context of their position relative to the ground i.e. offside at a kick, or being played onside by a kicker. Passing is the only part of the game where movement relative to the gound can be ignored, and it is only done for the convenience of throwing "flat" (i.e. forward relative to the ground) passes.

No we're not. Stevo may be, and those who believe him may also be. But the rest of us (including the officials) aren't.

We are judging the pass at the time it is made - at the instant in which the ball is thrown. Is it thrown towards someone who is (at this instant in time) level or behind the player passing the ball. If so then it is not a forward pass.

It doesn't matter what happens to the passer, the ball or the receiver after this instant. If it wasn't thrown forward it isn't a forward pass.

couldn't resist

That's Stevo's invented Momentum Rule, not the actual rule being used.

The actual rule simply states that the ball must be propelled backwards relative to the player making the pass at the instant he makes the pass, regardless of whether or not it travels backwards relative to the ground.

That doesn't make any sense at all, under such an explanation the direction of the pass itself is totally irrelevant, which means a pass could be thrown (lobbed) clearly forward (relative to the ground), so long as the reciever made sure they stood behind the initiator of the pass, yet such a move would obviously be pulled up as a forward pass.

Every explanation given appears to involve some form of contradiction or plain fallacy, and the only thing that seems certain is that the direction of pass does not necessarily need to be judged in some way relative to the ground, which makes it different from the determination of direction in every other aspect of the sport I can think of.

The problem is the direction of a pass can only accurately be judged in flight, not by second guessing the body language of the person making the pass.

In that case it wasn't passed towards the receiver. It was passed towards a point in front of the passer, which is clearly a forward pass.

The direction of the pass is not the same as the direction the ball travels in. The direction of the pass is only one factor in the resultant path of the ball. The forward pass is judged on the direction of the throw.

Really? I don't see the problem myself. If you're looking at the hands of the player making the pass it's pretty easy to determine if the ball was launched forward in relation to him or not.

The alternative that you suggest would result in a huge number of forward passes being awarded and the slowing down of the game as players attempted to ensure that they passed the ball backwards faster than they were running forwards.

It would also, as pointed out previously, result in the ridiculous situation where it would be possible to pass the ball over your had and still get pinged for a forward pass.

The rule is fine as it stands.

How many pages away are we from people rolling up socks and passing them through doorways while running along the upstairs landing?

Theres no way of getting around the momentum rule though at times some passes do seem to travel at a more forward rate than the persons running speed on release of the ball.

I would rather we got rid of allowing a flat pass at the play the ball. The number of these that IMO seem to go forward without being given is much greater than those during open play.

No you can't, not when players can feint when passing. Looking at the position of the player's hands does not determine what direction the pass will be in, it may be an indicator, but that's it.




That it would be more difficult to throw a genuinely flat pass whilst running (i.e. not a "flat" pass that is actually forward relative to the ground) I have no doubt, but then lots of things in RL are difficult, kicking goals from the touchline is difficult but we don't fudge whether they get two points because the ball appears to go in the general direction of the posts.



I don't understand what point you're trying to make here? We've had various different interpretations; from phoney arguments about the laws of physics and players momentum, to phoney arguments that the feint of a passer's hands indicating the actual direction of the pass, and the only semi-sensible argument argument is that it's more difficult to throw genuine flat passes (as opposed to backwards passes) when players are running.



I translate that as meaning it allows for passes that are forward relative to the ground because it's deemed more convenient than having to enforce a stricter interpretation of passing.