Correct, it is a terrible shame

You would hope the RL community would rally round them, unfortunately the opposite has been true in a lot of cases

WTF

there isnt a yes or no answer to this question.

and the statement

[iThis is completely different[/i would only be cryptic to someone who didnt speak English.

Im really not sure how you expect me to clarify it any further.

It is different. It isnt the same. Your comparison is irrelevant to the point made. What you compared didnt address the point. Your Comparison was different to the point made.

Cryptic, Honestly, there is nothing cryptic about it

Your right, i have never professed to. I have simply refrained from making random accusations and pretending they are true like you have

yes, in absence of evidence to the contrary i havent decided to make things up. You should try it some time, you will probably find losing your ridiculous level of cynicism liberating

No, tb’s analogy was completely false.

The issue is not just about businessmen and cash. But, for the RFL, that’s all it does seem to be about if you are an expansion club.

Tb’s post totally, and deliberately, ignored the fundamental, and very important, differences between the two clubs. Without this, his point is worthless - As was yours.

Once I filled in some of the gaps for him it became impossible to sustain as an argument, without the sort of prevarication and evasion that came along in your post.

Of course the merits of the two clubs involved in a licence bid are relevant. That’s what the criteria are supposed to cover.

You’re a fine one to be accusing people of double standards.

It seems you missed the actual point of the argument. Which wasnt a direct comparison between the two clubs (however much you wished it was) but the differing attitudes to what was essentially the same situation with specific regard to the owners and the fact neither club is self sustaining.

Look at the post again, there is no mention of anything regarding the licensing criteria (probably because any mention of it simply results in you doing what you are trying to do now) Simply and clearly the double standard in some peoples attitudes towards Crusaders only being sustainable because of their owners wealth and Widnes only being sustainable because of their owners wealth, along with Peoples attitudes to the intrinsic viability of the clubs when Leighton Samuel walked away compared to Vaughan walking away.

once again, for clarity, the comparison is the two attitudes expressed towards pretty similar situations, specifically the two owners and their leaving NOT a comparison between the two clubs

Smokey

In a way I salute you. You seem to be the kind of person who, if they had watched the Titanic sink, would have claimed that this enabled them now to become the first Transatlantic submarine cruiseline.

I just wonder what turn of events would cause some people (including the RFL) to finally admit to the farcical situation that has gone on. There will always be some ingenious way of spinning their way out of the situation and saving face.

It reminds me of those hapless Japanese soldiers wandering through the bush 30 years after the war has finished - completely oblivious to reality.

On second thoughts maybe it reminds me of Dads Army..

As I have said on another thread, we have gone so far beyond farce now that the farce is in danger of being lapped..

Smokey does appear to be the most misunderstood contributor on here.

Smokey's right about the inherent double standards some apply to Crusaders (and Quins for that matter for different reasons) on here. Widnes are being touted as being deserving a spot etc yet they went bust what a year or so ago? The apologists for them then say 'ah but its different now'. Hm. Why not give the new Crusaders a chance to turn things around as well?

Crusaders has been a stuff up. But the benefits if it can be made to work would be enormous - in terms of national profile, consequent sponsorship and Sky money they and Quins bring more to SL than any single heartland club.

If you want SL to be a laughing stock, then the actual failure of Crusaders would be all the ammunition anyone outside the game could want. As it stands there is still a chance - however small - of turning things round.

Smokey's just a dick-head.

I'd agree with that , most of the time I havent a clue what the hell he's going on about , and to tell the truth , I dont think he does either

I'm one of the few Widnes fans who was not surprised when we we lost out on a licence last time, the RFL could hardly reward a club who was in administration 10 months previously. I will now move Widnes to one side in this debate and say that to relocate the Crusaders and put them under the stewardship of management that are struggling to run a football club that has been established in the town for nearly 130 years is an act of sheer desperation that will only accelerate the demise of the Crusaders as a SL entity. I do not pretend for one second to be anywhere near an expert on any matters RL but surely the RFL should have funds in place to help development clubs if/when they flounder. The real losers in this are the small but loyal following that Celtic had built up in the last few years that face a 250 mile round trip to watch SL. I hope the Wrexham move works (and I mean it) but whereas you think they have a small chance I think it's microscopic.

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