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Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "You are talking rubbish. You do not know better than the professional referees concerned. They were right. You are wrong. You can argue that the law [ishould[/i be changed to apply to that situation, but as it stands, it does not.

In any case, using your own logic, "offence against try scorer" simply does not apply. If you speak English and are not mad, then answer me this
Ok, you need to calm down a bit. Take a deep breath and try not to get so upset as we're only having a discussion.

First of all, professional referees make mistakes just like anyone else, so unless you are suggesting that they are always 100% correct and no discussion should ever take place about refereeing decisions then your first comment is rather silly. And my argument isn't that the law should be changed; quite the opposite, those who claim that the law should only apply once the ball is grounded should argue that the law should be changed to "grounded". I am going off the law as it stands in its current form. If you recall, the commentators and pundits were also bemused by the non-implementation of the law in this particular try scoring situation.

Second, Tomkins was the try scorer and an offence was committed against him. This is beyond contention. And you're actually wrong, it does state that the law applies to a try scorer or someone who will shortly score a try but has not done so yet. It does so by specifically (and surely, we can assume, purposefully) using the word "GROUNDING" instead of "GROUNDED".

Third, you are desperately splitting hairs regarding the moment of impact. I'm sure you could make a screen grab 1 or 2 frames either side of the one I took, which would make the impact occur between 0.32 and 0.16 seconds before the ball is grounded, as opposed to the 0.24 seconds I quoted. The distinction makes no difference to the spirit of the law which is intended to address offences against try scorers as opposed to, you know, offences committed during ordinary play when a try is not scored.

SBR
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Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "But you seem to be saying that if the strike had occurred 0.24 seconds later when the ball had touched the ground it would have warranted a penalty kick after the conversion.'"


That is precisely what I, and the laws of the game, are saying.

Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "Does it really stand to reason that the RFL would create a rule by which players guilty of transgressions made during the act of scoring were still punished and players offended during the act of scoring were still recompensed yet it would not apply in a situation where a player is diving over the line to score? The intention of the law can be taken from it's nameOffence against try scorer. It is meant to provide an advantage to the try scoring team when an offence has been committed.'"


It does stand to reason. A major problem with your suggestion that they award a penalty after a try for an offence that occurred before the grounding is how far back do you go?

When the offence occurs before the grounding (as in this case) the try scoring team has already been given an advantage by the ref allowing play to continue and awarding the try. You can have the penalty or the try, not both. It is only in the rare instance of the offence being committed when the ball is actually being grounded that no advantage has been given and so the 8 point try addresses that.

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Quote: morleys_deckchair "the ball could easily have come out of his hands......

i dont know what all the fuss is about.'"

So easily in fact that, despite being completely out cold at the point of the picture, he still managed to have a good enough grip on it to ground it?

Quote: morleys_deckchair "no one cares'"

Clearly you do, otherwise you wouldn't be arguing about it.

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Quote: SBR "www.therfl.co.uk/a_guide_to_the_game/official_laws/13_penalty_kick

Quotewho is touching down for a try, a penalty kick at goal shall be taken from in front of the goal posts after the attempt to convert the try. After his kick has been taken the ball shall be deemed dead and play shall be restarted from the halfway line. This law applies to the period during which the ball is touched down for a try and not to any subsequent period.


It is pretty clear that this refers to when the ball is actually being grounded. Not when the ball is a couple of feet off the ground prior to it being touched down. This is also consistent with how rare 8 point tries are.

Ganson had a simple choice between awarding the penalty or playing the advantage and awarding the try. I think awarding the try was to Wigan's advantage.'"

I don't think it's pretty clear at all, I think it needs rewriting. They say both touching and touched, which are two different tenses.

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The 8 point try rule cannot apply after the ball is grounded, the rules are at least clear on that aspect. So I think it's reasonable to suggest that the term "try scorer" applies to Tomkins whilst he is touching the ball down. As EGW has pointed out it's a split second between the offence and the try being scored. I don't think it's beyond the bounds of reason to suggest that literally a split second before the try is scored a player reaching out to put the ball down could be construed as in the act of scoring.

I'll say it again. There can be no 8 point try for any offence that happens after the ball touches the ground. So it's not unreasonable to suggest the law is meant to apply to the act of scoring.

Also that ball in he picture is no way 4 foot away from the line, it's almost directly above the line. It's also not 4 foot in the air, unless Steve Ganson is now 8 foot tall.

It's also interesting to note that the NRL use the same rule, worded in exactly the same way and there have been at least 2 relatively recent 8 point tries given for offences that happened immediately prior to the ball being touched down.

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The rules should protect the players and uphold fair play and sportsmanship. It cannot be right that a defending team can foul a player and get away without giving away a penalty at any point during the game. I believe that all the other offences mentioned on this thread should also have seen penalty kicks awarded after the conversion. I see no reason why retrospective penalties cannot be given to uphold player protection and the spirit of the game. When different people have different spins on the same rules, the rules need to be clarified. Whatever the rules say they should not allow foul play/dangerous play (whether intentional or not) to be punished more harshly at some points during a game than others.

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Quote: TheElectricGlidingWarrior "Ok, you need to calm down a bit. Take a deep breath and try not to get so upset as we're only having a discussion.'"

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