The last line wasn't an insult it was more tongue I n cheek regarding your boast about being of higher intellect. A head stamp is something I'd say was clear cut as was Morley in the ashes, I know the lines of what's clear cut could be blurry but IMHO nothing Samoa did tonight was clear cut (the nearest being the hit on the back when the ball had gone which if have sent him to the bin for)

And I actually agree with you that a red card wasn't needed for the vast majority of them (only the idiot joining St Helens when he did the blindside hit was one which I would have said truly crossed the line, even more so than the tip tackle) but the second at least should have been a yellow, at which point the third one wouldn't have happened as that would have then have been a red.

But there is no way you can say put them all on report or you get the situation of the first half where foul play was in effect going unpunished (yes, after the game it will be, but that isn't the point. If I commit such foul play and am then kept on the pitch I am only being punished at the time to holding down or to a 2 on 1 steal, just a penalty. What does that say to me? It means I can slam someone illegally and all I have to do is defend 20 yards nearer my goal. Sure I may miss the next game but I got him a cracker, look he hasn't moved in the last five minutes and the physio is calling for a stretcher. Owned!!!!!

You see the danger of not dealing with foul play, there are no sanctions so it is suddenly allowed to happen. Now consider the coach with the 25 man squad who wants the number 6 taken out in the next game. "Don't worry son, you will get to stay on the pitch, pick up a two match ban but you will have done your job and I will have you straight back in the seventeen for the game after. That little git who plays six however will not be troubling us today"

Foul play has to be dealt with at the time, it really is black and white but cowardice amongst officials is seeing us suffer as a sport.

Ironically it was only the courage of the touch judge in the Morley case "this is really serious Steve" with his radio communication to Ganson that got that to be a red.

As a sport we are being let down by the professional match officials but at the same time the thugs should be eradicated from the sport. The Samoans are now going to be probably 4 players light for selection at the weekend whereas one sin binning, by a match official with an understanding of foul play, at the correct moment might have reduced that by half.

Tbh I think our points are similar and I agree ten minutes for the original or second offense would have calmed it down, I just don't like seeing red cards thrown about like confetti spoiling the spectacle of a good tough match such as tonight's.

Whilst there is a modicum of agreement how the referee could have managed the situation I do not agree with your sentiment that thugs should be allowed to do the illegal hits and be dealt with afterwards nor do I think such illegal hits should be considered part and parcel of the game and I should accept that someone may deliberately attempt to hurt me in a cowardly manner. We are poles apart on those points Cas.

Well having read the whole of this thread I can only think that someone (and he knows who he is) must have been the subject of a very late and dangerous tackle which has affected his ability to distinguish between fair and foul play. Or he's actually Samoan.

I agree with all of this. I'm all for a tough, hard game, but that's not what the Samoans set out to do.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if, once the game was obviously lost, Agar had pulled out his halfbacks, sent out a set of four props and just gone to knock seven bells of out of the Samoans. They deserved it IMO.

My belief is, on a rugby field and in life, you should never throw the first punch but by God you should make sure you throw the last one.

That appears to be Billy Slater's philosophy as well.

Cas Till I Die.
Are you, or by any chance related to Keith Hepworth? He was the king of the cheap late shot off the ball, but there were no cameras around then, so guess it was fair play, just hard rugby in your eyes.

So you've gone back 45 years to find someone to call a cheap shot merchant? I'm sure there have been other more worthy candidates since then. Catch up man.

As an official and regular spectator I can say that there are some things that happen on a rugby field that no player should expect to have to deal with when he puts his boots on. If we don't protect players against blatant thuggery, the next Tomkins, Watkins, Long etc won't want to play Rugby League, they'll play football or rugby union or whatever, or maybe they'll cop a career-ending injury before they realise their potential. Meanwhile we'll just end up watching the likes of Bailey, Hock and Ablett every week and wondering why the aussies always stick 50 past us.

I think the Samoans got a bit over excited and the ref’s leniency meant that these offences were repeated. Had he yellow carded the first offender I doubt there’d have been a second or third offence. IMO the second offence was the worst as it was not only late but from behind and was more of a shoulder charge. The ref should have got his card out earlier as it could have seriously got out of hand. I thought the French were very restrained.

I’m all for bringing back the biff but off the ball incidents targeting the little blokes is nothing to get nostalgic about. That was one part of the game that we’re well rid off. I like watching Samoa get stuck in but targeting the little fellas with late shots from the blindside was cowardly stuff IMO.

You what? And get his face stamped on by some coward in the middle of one of those 16 man pile-ups?

Darren Turner was another until Tony Kemp slotted him - stopped him dead in his tracks!!