As soon as peacocks name went on the team sheet it sent the message to everyone that it's name and not form that matters.

Agreed and he was very poor last night.

What struck me is that we had Shenton Left centre, Tom Briscoe Right Wing, Kevin Sinfield Stand off. What happened to picking players in form and in their correct positions.

It's England, we couldn't possibly do that.

It's to confuse the Aussies and Kiwis.

European RL and Logic. So incompatable.

Nice little end of season earner, without breaking a sweat, and holiday bonus for either the Kiwis or the Aussies in the 4 nations.

Someone convince me that the "tag" match last night was played with the full gusto of a SL game or even a "test" match.

If I was the Kiwi or Aussie coach I wouldn't be too worried about England as contenders, and that to me is so so sad, but hey, the experts have been saying since 1982 we are going the right way so maybe, one day, they will be right.

As things stand, I probably won't be around to see it though.

That was pretty dire. I think the last time I watched a GB or England team look as if they had an actual attacking plan, other than hoping for an opposition mistake or an unplanned individual break, Bobbie Goulding was playing for them.

The ironic thing is, that we probably do have more good attacking backs and halves in this country than we've had since the days of Jonathon Davies et al. Yet we picked two out-of-form halves at 6&7, one of whom isn't a half at all, and picked an in-form half at hooker and another at fullback. No need to repeat the previous accurate comments about tsome of the forwards being picked on history, not form.

So - terrible game, poor selections, woeful attacking performance, coach with track record of failure. It's all looking good for the 4 nations.

Big overhaul of that team needed for the end of season. It wont happen, but I would be looking to make probaby about 8 or 9 changes.

Tomkins
Briscoe, Yeaman, Bridge, McGillvray
Widdop, Brough
Graham, Roby, Carvell
Ellis, Westwood
Burgess

Morley, Robinson, Crabtree, Manu (I know that will be unpopular but I think the way England play requires someone like him who can run through a tackle and score from nothing, we dont have the skill to craft tries against Aus and NZ, at the end of the day its only like the tonnes of south sea islanders that have turned out Aus)

We don't need Manu, we have plenty players like him from the English game.

Name one. We have players who's overall game is as good, but we dont have anyone who is as hard to put down as Manu, give him the ball with a little bit of space and something will generally happen.

Like who?

Widdop and Brough will bring proper organisation and attacking ability. Hopefully the other players can keep up. Widdop looks dangerous everytime he has the ball, which hopefully translates into his international game. And Brough, seemingly according to this forum anyway, is the best possible choice at 7.

Joel Tomkins

He said like him, not better