It sounds like you didn't receive any marketing from Warrington either, yet that didn't stop you going. As for United and City, there's a whole world of difference between football and rugby. Despite, as you said, them "not being rolling in cash", I suspect they could each have bought the entire rugby league should they have wanted to.

And there's no evidence that Salford are going anywhere. In both senses of the phrase.

I went to Warrington because, as I say, we were bored, we looked up sports fixtures nearby, and Warrington came up. Salford didn't. But as a child or teenager, when you haven't got any cash and no freedom to go anywhere, pester power works. Had Salford dropped a leaflet through one day, I'm sure my Dad would have thought about taking us. But they didn't, and he knew nothing about RL, so it never happened.

I'm not having a go at Salford fans, I'm making a fairly salient and cogent point that Salford RLFC's community engagement down the years could have been much better. When you have less money, you have to invest more time.

Hmm, so you went to Warrington because you looked up sports fixtures nearby and Salford didn't come up? Bizarre. That sounds like because we weren't at home that week we missed out on your company for the last 20 years or so, or did Warrington 'drop a leaflet' through your door just as you were 'looking up'? As John says, it doesn't sound like it, but because Salford didn't leaflet your Dad, you've concluded that the club's community engagement down the years could have been much better! Your point about spending more time when you've got no money is also nonsense, in case you've forgotten Salford are a business who have to spend time and money marketing and promoting the club and last time I looked marketing material costs money and you have to pay people for their time.

I get heartily sick of Wire, Wigan, Saints fans etc. who pop on here and our forum pontificating on how Salford could do more to attract fans from our catchment areas (especially those who live within or near the boundaries of the city as they seem to demonstrate an ignorance of breathtaking proportions).

So, for your benefit, let's just examine the demographics for Salford RL shall we?

Premiership Football - even in the early 90's and much earlier too, football has been the dominant sport in and around Manchester and Salford. Just now, with City and United so succesful and on TV ALL the time it's really, really difficult to get kids engaged in RL, especially to come and watch Salford.

RL - As you amply demonstrate, we are also surrounded by some of the most successful RL clubs in history, with Wigan, Saints and more Johnny come lately, Wire, so any kids that do have leanings to RL want to go and watch succesful teams, hell, my own 8 year old is the only Salford fan out of his amateur side team mates, the rest support either Wigan, Warrington or Saints. Even at 8 years old he regularly gets the mickey taken out of him because he chooses to support a team that perenially struggles - do you think that he would bother supporting Salford or pestering me to go if his Dad didn't support them? Also, he supports Salford because I do, not because of the club's community engagement policy.

Catchment Area - Now here's a tricky one. I reckon you (and lots of others) think that our catchment area should be Salford, Manchester, Trafford, Bury, Stockport, Oldham, Rochdale and Tameside? Using media such as Manchester Evening News (and its local freebies such as the Advertisers), Radio Manchester and local TV to attract fans? Trouble is United, City, (Bolton, Blackburn, Oldham, Rochdale, Bury and Stockport) also use them just as Wigan, Saints, Warrington and Huddersfield Giants do, not forgetting Sale RU either. Are you now beginning to understand just how difficult it is for Salford to generate interest when we run ourselves on a shoestring?

Could Salford's community engagement been better? Maybe. Would it have yielded much more than we have now given the above constraints? Possibly but I would suggest doubtful. Why did you choose to go back and watch Wire and not your local team after you decided that you liked RL? Only you can answer that.....

Your second paragraph above hits the nail on the head, but the opposite of what you think.

What you need is to build a community of fans, and the model that works in RL is to attract youngsters to nag their parents into going along, and then to make it a "mustn't miss" experience, mainly for the youngsters, though obviously attractive for the parents too.

Ads in the media are OK but expensive, and tend to target just individual events - not crowd building. In RL, especially, engagement with the local community really is the thing.

To do it properly, you need a Peter Deakin. There aren't many about.

Even with a Peter Deakin, you have to throw some initial money at it. That money you will never see again, as you will have to keep constantly reinvesting and reinventing to keep the pot boiling. If all you have is a shoestring even the late, great Deakin couldn't help you.

I understand what you're saying here Aardvark, but when you did it with the Bulls back in the day you didn't have the same constraints that we had in terms of the the sheer pull of Premiership and championship football in your area - you only had one football team and even if they were in the Premiership then only pulled crowds in the mid 20,000's. With the move to Summer, shrewd investment in the squad and some razzmatazz unashamedly borrowed from the Cougars you were able to generate some momentum within a city hungry for some sporting success and a latent love of RL. You also didn't have (at the time) a Leeds RL side that had won anything recently and Halifax were in definite decline too.

Unfortunately, that's not what we've got at Salford at all, and I sincerely doubt that even if we found a modern day 'Peter Deakin' that was willing to do it for us that we would ever have enough money, or generate the pull within the community - kids are either City or United (combined crowd pulling c. 130,000)from birth here, I know, I have 3 sons and only one of them is remotely interested in RL and I'm pleased and relieved that the one that is, chooses to come along and suffer with me!! My eldest is a City fan and is a season ticket holder because my Father-in -Law takes him, has done since he was tiny (I did take him to Salford on a number of occasions but he prefers football) and is now watching the Premier League Champions - how can I, and Salford more pointedly, compete with that?

I agree that building a community of fans is a good idea and model but it can only ever have limited success at Salford if the team on the paddock isn't winning stuff regularly because as we all know, what really brings in the fans is a winning team - something that you will no doubt be all too familiar with now. Unfortunately that comes with the ultimate irony that after the years of sustained success at the Bulls, the current strife (caused in no small part by lack of success on the paddock but also some shocking financial gambles) has brought the Bulls fans community closer together now than they've ever been.

We're almost the opposite of where the Bulls are now, we cut our coat according to our cloth (including the Chairman's contribution) which has meant years of no success and making up the numbers in SL, low crowds and inability to invest heavily in our squad or marketing. Any decent players we develop go off to the richer, more successful clubs and we start again on the same cycle, given that, and bearing in mind some of the rugby we've played this year, we've been consistently punching above our weight for years.

But there aren't any prizes in RL for keeping your financial house in order (in fact, at the moment it seems to be the opposite - that's not having a go at you by the way!) and it doesn't get young kids or adults wanting to watch a successful side come through the turnstiles I'm afraid so we continue to rely on corporate sales, good sponsorship and a hardcore of around 3,500 fans to see us through each year. Anything else would need a massive injection of cash over and above what our current Chairman puts in each year to shore us up and have us challenge for honours - even then, most folk think that 10,000 plus each game would still be a stretch for us.

I wish that the answer to this conundrum wasn't 'lots more money required' but sadly, I think that is the reality.

I don't think it's particularly unusual to stick with the first team you saw live. Had I gone to Salford that weekend and enjoyed it, I would have gone with Salford. Such is life. I had, and have, no family ties to the game or to any particular club.

Yeah, I went on a whim having seen nothing of it before. But that doesn't mean lots of other people won't react to the marketing.

As I said in my first post, I believe the game needs Salford or the game will disappear to the very outskirts of the city. The problem, as you kind of touch on, is that our fellow Mancunians have become utterly obsessed with football (well, watching United and City on snide Greek satellite down the pub rather than going to games) that everything else struggles. For Salford, see Belle Vue Aces in speedway.

Could be worse- try finding any interest in League down here in Southampton.

it always amuses me when people say that they (their club) have no money for marketing.......marketing is the best way to attract fans, who spend more money, attract other fans and bigger gates are of more interest to sponsors......etc...etc..

London Broncos finished 2nd in SLII and made the CC final in 99......their crowds didn't go up because of success......

Im not going to sit and read through all the pages so forgive me if i say anything that has been said. The women who posted this rant has since come out and apologized on Salfords facebook and forum (not sure if she has here). She basically doesn't have a clue whats going on and has just listened to rumor after rumor and come up with this.

In the original post she refers to Salford moving back to the willows, click on the following link and make your own mind up weather we will be back there or not rlhttp://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid Funny how she says this thread is not being here to spread rumors and malicious gossip.

She also goes onto say the people at the club don't have their heart in the job but then can never stop lauding them on facebook telling them how great they are. May i also point out she was on twitter after the Hull KR game spreading more rumors about how Salford fans were chanting racist abuse, you couldn't make it up. Maybe people who have noting better to do should start attending games instead of leaving it to the die hard 100 or so maybe we would be in a better position.

Let me say people who know me know i like a good moan but some things written in that first post are laughable. The club are extremely poor in almost every department and we need to buck our ideas up and fast if we want to progress as a club. They have let us down time after time after time so i can understand where this rant has come from i have had a few in my time but i base mine on facts. We may be near administration i honestly don't know things don't look good but what good does it do to Salford RL for a "supporter" to come out and start a 15 page thread up.

I will post what Salford themselves have said on the clubs facebook and yes i understand they are hardly going to tell you if we were but just for the sake of it;

Salford City Reds Rugby League Club They're just peddling the same rumours Rossy. The tired line 'Salford were forced to deny they are going into administration...' was used again as a stick to beat us with - damned if we do deny, damned if we don't (which is why we try not to comment on rumour and speculation!!).

Administration is not happening, nor has Holdsworth 'gone to Hull' but there's nothing we can do to stop people constantly repeating it with a nod and a wink and pretending 'they know something you don't know'.

Also nothing we can do to stop fans believing it sadly. /Steve

It might well be the best way to attract fans, but without the money to begin with, where do you start? Salford have limited resources (like most clubs really) and try to live within their means (like [isome[/i clubs). They've invested most of it in assembling a reasonably decent squad in the hope that that would bring the fans in (which, to a limited extent, it has), and have very little left for whatever marketing you think they should do.

I suspect things will change next season.

Get the players visiting schools every weekday and give out free tickets, caps and scarves to the kids at that school. Do a door to door drop of season ticket info and regular Salford updates etc etc. Link up with every amateur club in the region to offer a 2-1 ticket sales incentive and prizes for most sold for them to sell tickets to their club members. This stuff doesn;t cost a lot of money (the money Hull are going to pay for Holdsworth will probably pay for two years of marketing initiatives). It may take a couple of years but if you never start you'll never get there.

All of the above with Knobs on!

I have been banging on about the London Fiasco FOR OVER 10 YEARS NOW.........the owner is ploughing cash (1.5 million) into the squad.....but not a brass cent into marketing...they are on a 3k crowd average this year....Salford at the weekend isn't going to improve that.

There are loads of ways to attract fans to games that take a lot of effort and a little cash......I suspect it's often a mixture of both that puts people off even trying...

never ceases to amaze me how many marketing gurus spend their days on rlfans and are not more focussed on their multi-million pound marketing empires. actually...think the sentence explains itself.

I earnt NZ$675,000 PRE-TAX last financial year, including 20% of that from NZRL.......pop all you like, but the FACT remains, Marketing the game is the #1 issue in the UK.
PM me and I'll send you my accounts/P&L/Client list....with a whopping NDA attached

my multi milion pound chain of brothels keeps me too busy!