I'm talking about people that don't know of the Kiwis, but have come across a team called New Zealand Warriors and assumed they're a rep side. You wouldn't expect someone in this situation to know the roster of the team, let alone where they are from (although there are Australians playing for NZ, Wales and France anyways).

It's not a complex concept, but neither is the fact there is a sport called rugby league and one called rugby union but there are still plenty that would think they are the same.

But the Cheshire/NZ side is (or would be) merely a re-marketed Warrington/Auckland side. And the reason Widnes residents would be less likely to support Warrington is because they have Widnes Vikings. That's my point. Anyone who actually argued that Warrington should re-brand as Cheshire so that people in Widnes had someone to support would surely (and rightly) be met with the response that Widnes Vikings exist even if they aren't in SL! Throughout, what I've disagreed with is the idea that if there isn't an NRL or SL side then there is "nobody to support".


You're kind of changing my argument here, though not on purpose I think. It isn't about what I expect fans to do or not do, I simply disagree with the idea that "no NRL/SL team" = "nobody to support" and therefore requires re-branding to include these so-called team-less fans.

And at that point it will change


Because NZ is a very defined area. 'the south' and 'the rest of europe' arent. Whereas London, Auckland, NZ and Catalonia are.

And before you say it, France is a defined area but a massive country, many many many times the size of New Zealand in population and in land, which is why Les Catalans represent Catalonia rather than 'france'. Catalonia is the largest population represented by a single team in either hemisphere nearly twice the population of NZ. They represent about 7million people.

Do they? Do you really think there are large portions of NZers who dont know the difference between the Warriors and the Kiwis? Who dont know the difference between their NRL side and the National Side?

So basically the size of the catchment area being too big changes to suit your argument then? And that it's OK for some to be named after it and change back afterwards, but not others because they're too big (which changed depending on who you're arguing about)?

Well there's no real point in carrying on with this argument then as you change it to suit.

Where has it changed? NZ is in no way comparable to France in terms of size or population. And im not sure where you think it said it was ok for some to be named after it and changed back but not for others.

In simple terms for you, a country like France, far too big in both population and area for one club to represent it.

A place like catalonia or London, still pretty big places, have the population to possibly support a few teams but still small enough to have one represent it in the absence of other clubs.

NZ relatively small, certainly capable of supporting one team, probably two, unlikely three. Definitely small enough to be represented by only one side.

It would be ridiculous for us to pretend France, NZ, Catalonia, London, 'the south'(whatever that is) are all the same in terms of the amount of teams they can support and whether one club side could claim to represent them. One has 65m people in it, two between 7/8m and one 4m

But that isn't "nobody to support" at all, is it?! It's "nobody who I want to support".


Aren't they? You honestly don't think having a bigger, more successful club in a more prestigious competition re-brand themselves to cover your locality would harm your smaller, less successful team? Anyway, like I said I didn't intend on putting forward an argument for what should or shouldn't be done, more disagreeing with your reasoning about there being no club to support.


I imagine you would gain some and lose some. You would attract people from outside the immediate locality who previously did not feel affiliated with "MyTown RLFC", but you'd lose people who no longer felt affiliated with "OurCounty RLFC". How would most RL fans honestly feel if their team became a different team for different fans? I'd also say,as above, that it might weaken smaller clubs.

Its a distinction without a difference. The outcome is exactly the same.

People have that choice. If they choose to support the bigger more successful club in a more prestigious competition thats not a bad thing for the game.

Id imagine it will attract a lot more than it will lose. Even if it did 'weaken' the smaller clubs by taking some of their fans, it would also attract others who werent smaller clubs fans. We cant stop attracting more fans on the basis some may have held an affiliation elsewhere.

Course there's a difference! If John Smith down the road doesn't fancy supporting Wigan (as impossible as that scenario seems) would he be correct in saying there isn't a team in Wigan to support and then going on to suggest Saints should re-brand to cover Wigan? Sorry, but regardless of whether you think it would be good for the game, or good for fans, your starting point is simply wrong!

If John Smith doesnt want to, and doesnt support a lower league team, and doesnt have an SL side to support, whether you say he doesnt doesnt have a team to support or he does but he is choosing not to by his decision to only support the game at the top level is irrelevant it leaves us with exactly the same net effect that at this point John Smith doesnt support the game.

If a club widens its support area to then take where he lives into account through re-branding, better/more marketing, closer community links, then good. They havent taken a supporter away from the lower leagues (because John Smith wouldnt support the lower leagues) and increased their fan base.

John Smith sounds like a bit of a tool.

Anyone bought one of these yet? If so whats the quality and sizing like?

I remember hearing (and seeing) how poor the Wigan World club challenge shirts were. Hopefully the exiles one hasn't been rushed into production like that one was.