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| It was turned down under the laws of the game.
Match officials use the rules although they often do upset people, sometimes when they are right and also when they are wrong, obviously.
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| Quote LeedsDave="LeedsDave"Well McGuire runs behind his team mate who is stood in the defensive line.
It doesn't matter what McGuire did. The player with the ball can run where he wants including behind his own player. If refs interpret obstruction in this way it will be virtually impossible for teams to use dummy runners. Try for me! Shame - chalked off a fantastic try, one of the best of the weekend, (and I'm no Leeds fan)
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| Quote Kevs Head="Kevs Head"
With the use of dummy runners the ball is passed behind them rather than a player running behind them. What the VR is looking for in a case such as this is the attacking player preventing a defender from having the opportunity of making a tackle and also is the attacking player in the defensive line as this causes confusion in the defence. a dummy runner is allowed to run throught the line but cannot stop in it.
In reality it is unlikely Hansen would have made a tackle but he had alter his line as a result of the dummy runner so under the rules as soon as Maguire runs behind him it's a penalty.
The correct decision was made under the current interpretation however I think it should be looked at like many complicated rules in our game and made simpler.
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| Quote LeedsDave="LeedsDave"Well McGuire runs behind his team mate who is stood in the defensive line. It's an obstruction by the letter of the law, but true it didn't affect the play.
The thing is the exact same thing happened in Wigan's attack about 5 minutes later and nothing was given. Seems to be one of those rules that only applies if a try is scored and the VR is present. The consistency is the annoying part.'"
Unless we reserve VR for grounding of the ball and 'foot in touch' only, this is pretty much unavoidable. We wouldn't want VR on every play, so refs have to make a judgement call. Most will err slightly on the side of 'play on' in situations like Sunday. The alternative would be awful (stopping the game for every suspicion of a problem). Once you go to the VR though, it pretty much has to go to 'letter of the law'. I'm a Wigan fan, but admit I'd have been annoyed the other way round. However, I think the balance is about right. It obviously throws up an inevitable inconsistency between the level of scrutiny on a try scoring play versus a 'normal' play, but I can't think of an adjustment to the system which would make it any more optimal than it is now.
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| Quote RLBandit="RLBandit"I'm a Wigan fan, but admit I'd have been annoyed the other way round. '"
I don't think most Leeds fans are too annoyed, as McGuire did run round his own man. It's more the lack of consistency that's annoying.
Plus, after the last couple of weeks and with a few injuries, we were expecting a bit of a hammering. So I think most Leeds fans were quite pleased!
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| Got to admit even as a Wigan fan I thought it was a harsh call, albeit by the letter of the law the correct one.
Thing is, Leeds fans might feel it's an overzealous application of the laws but had the try been allowed Wigan fans would have been perfectly entitled to ask why the laws were ignored completely.
All things considered, which is the preferable option? Apply the laws or ignore them?
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| Quote Cronus="Cronus"All things considered, which is the preferable option? Apply the laws or ignore them?'"
Absolutely the question to ask, but my gripe as a rugby fan is the call of play on then the change of mind. The refs job is to recognise infringements, not have a think 20 seconds later. If he was applying the laws, it was a penalty when it happened. Or it wasn't, as he thought.
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| Quote Chris28="Chris28"Absolutely the question to ask, but my gripe as a rugby fan is the call of play on then the change of mind. The refs job is to recognise infringements, not have a think 20 seconds later. If he was applying the laws, it was a penalty when it happened. Or it wasn't, as he thought.'"
Oh I agree, and I think this is where the clash occurs when we want referees to let games 'flow' rather than blowing up at every offence possible.
In any normal (non-scoring) passage of play the infringement would probably have been whinged at by the crowd but forgotten by the next tackle - in this case Thaler calls 'play on' as it appears to be a minor offence and doesn't actually affect the passage of play. However, that passage of play then ends with a try being scored and when being reviewed by the Video Ref it can't be ignored.
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| It was a spot on decision as was the Broughton no try
It's a fine line but in both cases the attacking side crossed it
Hansen was impeded when McGuire ran begin his own player, simple as that the only error is that it wasn't called immediately
The ball carrier can't run behind his own man, especially when his own man is stood within touching distance in the defensive line.
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| Quote Code13="Code13"It was a spot on decision as was the Broughton no try
It's a fine line but in both cases the attacking side crossed it
Hansen was impeded when McGuire ran begin his own player, simple as that the only error is that it wasn't called immediately
The ball carrier can't run behind his own man, especially when his own man is stood within touching distance in the defensive line.'"
Can you tell me where it says in the laws of the game that the ball carrier can't run behind his own man? By my reading of the rules it says specifically that he can dodge behind his own players. Obstruction has nothing to do with what the ball carrier does and everything to do with what his team mates do. In this case I felt that the Leeds player made a legitimate dummy run directly at the defensive line ( not at an angle across McGuire) and, if my memory serves correctly, was virtually stationary when Hanson made contact. McGuire didnt pass the ball (the whole point of dummy runners) and, quite legally, ran behind his team mate. No obstruction for me. Of course these things are judgement calls: the VR made his decision and we all know that the VR can't make mistakes don't we.
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| Quote Cronus="Cronus"However, that passage of play then ends with a try being scored and when being reviewed by the Video Ref it can't be ignored.'"
And again that's my issue - the ref shouldn't be having second thoughts about something he's let go earlier in a play. If he let it go, why ask the video ref to look at it?
Perhaps the VR should just be looking at grounding when the onfield ref is unsighted, knock-ons, and (cough) offsides. If the onfield ref is happy to let a play go, he shouldn't be allowed to go back.
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| Quote Kevs Head="Kevs Head"Can you tell me where it says in the laws of the game that the ball carrier can't run behind his own man? By my reading of the rules it says specifically that he can dodge behind his own players. Obstruction has nothing to do with what the ball carrier does and everything to do with what his team mates do. In this case I felt that the Leeds player made a legitimate dummy run directly at the defensive line ( not at an angle across McGuire) and, if my memory serves correctly, was virtually stationary when Hanson made contact. McGuire didnt pass the ball (the whole point of dummy runners) and, quite legally, ran behind his team mate. No obstruction for me. Of course these things are judgement calls: the VR made his decision and we all know that the VR can't make mistakes don't we.'"
I bet they make a hell of a lot less mistakes than fans trying to change the result of a game on a forum
It was obstruction every day of the week.
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