He led as a captain but not as a player, just remind me how well Leeds and sundials started the season? Sinfield is nowhere near England standard. trust me mare I am a odd RL fan I put country before club.

Plenty of talk of this player or that is not good enough so should not be considered, but plenty if not all english halves have failed over a series time after time for yonks. All the time Brough was at Wakefield he was stand out. Once he settled at Hudds he was key to what they did, and did well when they beat Warrington in the play offs last year. For me Widdop and Brough have to be in the halves. Their skills seem to complement each other well and are worth a shot going forward.

Isn't brough an out an out 7? So why the comparison with sinfield?

And if anyone thinks Brough would have made any difference to the result on Saturday they are kidding themselves.

So basically he has steered his teams to....... Failure!

Hang on a minute.... Broughs dip in form was due to the Hudds pack been beaten up? Ok fair enough comment. What happened on Saturday again? Englands pack got demolished so what would Brough have done differently from club level?
When Englands pack was on form, vs New Zealand, Sinfield got man of the match hmmm.

Because they play similar roles in terms of organising and kicking?

He led as a player and as a captain, easily winning the Southstander Player of the season award. (not, you may note, the annual 'captain of the season' awards)

Brough's performances didn't even earn him a place in the top 2 for Giants player of the year(similarly voted for by fans)

Leeds started the season poorly..no one is disputing that. I suspect that having up to half the salary cap injured and a new coach with new methods and structures, along with virtually no planned pre-season, may have had more to do with this than Sinfield's individual performance.

Exactaly. Better halfs than bothe Sinfield and Brough have looked gash fir GB over the years (Long being one of the most recent examples) because our forwards haven't layed the platform. On the ocasions when the pack got the better of their opposite numbers (the game against NZ for example) the half backs have looked much better and so has the kicking game. Until we can produce a forward pack that can match the Aussies on a regular basis (England having the best pack in the world is a total myth) it won't matter who we have in the backs because they won't have the time or space to be effective.

Pretty well right.
The myth as you say that Englands pack is the best in the World has not been the reality for many years, (not sure when to be honest)
Which English players are better in their respective positions than.
Cam Smith
Sam Thaiday
Paul Gallen
Matt Scott
Even Luke Lewis, Watmough and Tony Williams

Sad but probably true. I think Sam Burgess would be the only English player who could get in to an Aussie 17. Ellis and Graham would be in the squad but neither (particulary Ellis) has ever really been able to look more than slightly above average in comparison to their Aussie counterparts.

You could argue that Ellis has looked well above average compared to his counterparts in the NRL, given his three successive Player of the Year Awards at Wests. Who knows how much better he might look at international level in a more dominant pack. (Having said that I wouldn't want to place him above their current second row internationals.)

Agreed.

Ellis is a better player than Burgess too. Burgess spends too much time on the injury lists, granted he's a huge talent and puts in some massive hits but I'd have ellis in my side before him.

Who else would West Tigers nominate?
They are the Hull FC of the NRL
Benji Marshall has been up there so often so a new face was needed.
It was Ellis or Heighington as the best of the rest.

Your argument might hold true for the first or second year, but if it's a question of needing new faces a third consecutive award would be pretty unlikely.
Having seen video of his performances (particularly 2009-10) Ellis looks every bit worth the accolades.