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I guess if people keep predicting Wakey for the bottom spot for enough years it may actually happen, eventually

Except for finishing top and winning the grand final, you mean?

You need to tell that to the saints fans who made the ridiculous statement in the first place.

I certainly wouldn't agree with people saying Walmsley is only equal to our props. He would improve our front row considerably if he played for us. I do think Clubb and Crosby are about equal to Amor though, as average gain for the season shows.

Hey Wigan,

You lost. Get over it.

You are joking aren't you, with the possible exception of Burns I think they are all better.

You badly need to replace Hodgson. He has been your best player for a couple of years now. You're other signings are improvements on the whole, but this won't be worth anything if you don't get a decent hooker.

I agree, we haven't as yet but my argument is that our ones coming in are better than those they replace.

Hull have thrown millions at the KC, however that was the council not the rugby team!

Amor is actually Saints best prop and an international in the near future. Averaging more metres, more carries, similar tackles and busts than any of Wigan's props. His season was hammered by injury unfortunately and Saints missed him enormously. He only made 17 appearances, Play Offs included, all year. Despite this, massively impressive.



I'm happy to acknowledge that I'm not averse to coming out with the odd bit of hyperbole. I'd probably been reading too many posts from Wigan supporters and decided to join in. I like Sarginson, he's improved tremendously but his metres are more to do with Wigan's tactics than any real individual brilliance.



Thompson came on after 20 minutes. In an hour, he made the same metres as almost your entire propping rotation. Your pack didn't compete at all. Your front row put in one of the worst propping performances in a big game I've ever seen, hence you consistently went wide. Why do you think Wane is obsessively stockpiling prop forwards at present ?!?? It isn't because your props are outstanding, let me tell you !



Yes, I do. I'm not impressed with Tomkins at all on his return and if I'm honest, was pleased to see him line up at OT instead of Bateman. I reckon he's lost an element of pace although of course, a preseason will help. O'Loughlin is the best player in SL whilst Farrell is superb. His line running is the best in SL I believe. I'm happy to say these things because I watch the sport in a balanced fashion. If Wigan have a diamond, I have no issue in saying it. Unfortunately, your mob's RL considerations tend to revolve around everything Wigan being awesome and everything else being .



Because our pivots ended up being Jordan Turner, Mark Flanagan and Paul Wellens. With the best will in the world, they aren't passers of the ball.



Ifs, buts and maybes. With Walsh fit, Saints averaged 33 points a game last year. Wigan averaged 30 a game over the season. It's easy to understand why Saints attack became turgid as soon as the big injuries hit. Had Walsh (and Lomax) been playing after Flower did his thing, St Helens would have racked up a record score in a Grand Final and Wigan would likely have had 40/50 points put on them.

The Good Friday game was the 'line in the sand' moment I believe for Saints. Yet again that day they didn't show anywhere near enough aggression or commitment to compete with Wigan. Brown hinted at it afterwards. The two occasions since have seen Saints be more aggressive than they've been in years. The results have been obvious. With Walsh out injured at Wigan, they were still able to win and despite having no halves at all at Manchester, they did it again. Let's remember as well, it was the ridiculously aggressive start to the game that Saints made that saw Flower lose his rag. Ultimately, without McIlorum, Wigan simply couldn't compete in the middle of the field against Saints last season and Wane is intent on sorting it.

I think Walmsley is by far your best prop, probably the best in the comp. I have no problem praising players from other teams. Amor's stats don't back up what you said. He made more carries and therefore metres than Clubb and Crosby, but his average gain is less than Clubb's, but more than Crosby's, but I do feel Crosby improved as the season went on. He was very impressive in the big games at the end of the season. Clubb had twice as many tackle busts as Amor, with less carries. I do think Amor was impressive for you though, and yes you did miss him when injured.



Thank you for admitting you got that wrong. It was that comment that got me to bother to post a reply, because it was ridiculous. However I think you're underestimating Sarginson's elusive running ability, he just seems to get past or through people when he shouldn't, which is shown up in his tackle busts for the season.



We didn't have as strong a front row as saints before Flower was sent off. I've never said we did by the way. With only one prop on the pitch at any one time and no Micky Mac, we were never going to go toe to toe with your bigger pack, that would be suicidal, our only option was to go wide and we did it pretty well I thought. As for worst propping performance, did you see our play off game against Huddersfield, they were awful.



Well your posts on here have been anything but balanced up to this one, makes a refreshing change. Not every Wigan fan thinks like that, I certainly don't. Roby should definitely won MOS in my eyes for example. We would have beaten Aus and NZ with him playing, IMO.


Why not? They are professional rugby league players, surely one of the most, if not most fundamental parts of being a rugby league player, is to pass the ball to a teammate. Ok, they might not have the skill of Lomax or Walsh, but against 12 players, surely they could have passed the ball on to a teammate out wide, where we would have been short of numbers. If we had for example Sarginson, O'Loughlin and Bowen/Hampshire as our pivots, I would be embarrassed if they couldn't pass the ball.



We had 10 first team players missing at the DW, and SOL playing his first game back from injury, yet it's despite WALSH being injured. We won't ever know what would have happened 13v13 at the grand final, but the bookies don't often get it wrong.



Yes the ridiculously aggressive start, shoulder charge on very first tackle, Masoe's high shot in the first set and then LH elbow/forearm smash on Flower. Yet it's Wigan who are thugs apparently. Lance should have gone for what he did, even YG has admitted that. There's good reasons why we weren't as strong in the middle in the last 2 games, look at the pack we had at the DW, and i'll say it yet again we had 12 players for 78 minutes, with only one prop on the pitch at any one time. How did you get on after Walmsley got sent off? You were leading weren't you?

Finally, yes Wane has recruited some props who should improve our go forward. I'm really looking forward to see how Tautai and Patrick go. I hope Mossop's shoulders hold up, he always gave us some go forward when he played. I also think Crosby will improve his stats considerably next year. He's a young prop, still learning, but he played really well at the end of the season, hopefully that will have given him some confidence that he can compete against anybody. If we had Walmsley, we would be almost unstoppable.

I'm well and truly over it. Can't wait for next season to start, to try to get the title back. Well done Saints, LLS with your injury problems and GF, you deserved it.

I was merely replying to a nonsensical comment about Sarginson, who isn't our saviour by the way, but a very fine player. It's escalated from there, mainly because we have a different opinion about rugby league. A discussion about rugby league, on a rugby league forum, who would have believed it?

Personally I feel it's a shame that we couldn't have had each teams best players playing in the Grand Final, 13v13, what a game that would have been!

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