Exactly. Too early to be dismissing an initiative off the back of one single game.

It's an example that your knees can get fecked in many different situations, not just because you're on a plastic pitch.


If it was clear, people wouldn't have had to post pictures on Twitter. I didn't notice "streaming blood" from players' knees. I saw a few grazes, as you'd expect in any game.


It was a cold night, you've just said it. The crumbs can freeze. I think it would be pretty easy to argue. A lot of the moisture will have frozen, meaning there would have been a harder than normal surface.


I'll agree with that, although the point I think is that you can scrape your knees on other surfaces. It's not a phenomenon known only to a plastic pitch. Will players be posting their grazes in summer?


You clearly don't know what skins actually do then. They aren't there to keep you warm. There are different kinds of skins. Some are designed to cool you down by taking the sweat away from the body so you don't overheat. They actually help prevent muscle injuries in most cases as well.

If the situation arises where we find that playing on an iPitch gives clubs the opportunity to bring in more revenue because the pitch is in better nick, then wearing skins would be a hit I'd happily take.


First of all, the Widnes players that commented on it are absolute morons.
Secondly, it's not like a RL player/coach/fan/etc to jump to an early conclusion, is it!


Do you not think it's a bit contradictory to come to a conclusion after one week and then say we should see what happens?

Yes, different situations. Yet people are using the injuries at Salford to somehow vindicate the ipitch, despite the different conditions and different pitches.


You need a bigger telly then. Admittedly I didn't notice how widespread it was at the time (mainly because I was in the pub) but I did notice some blood. Having watched it back it's clear there's far more claret flowing from knees and elbows than is normal, in summer or winter.


In that case Widnes should make a complaint. Allegedly this ipitch can handle temps down to -4°C with some simple 'frost management'. If that isn't the case they should be looking closely at the claims of the manufacturer.


That's not a relevant point at all. The fact that other surfaces and conditions can cause burns does not vindicate the injuries the ipitch appears to have caused.

I've played the last 3 summer seasons and only once suffered a burn-like graze, and that's on amateur pitches. At SL level the pitches are watered and kept lush and that's not a problem.


I didn't say they are designed to keep you warm. I said it's a nonsense to expect players to wear extra layers in hot weather.

If they can keep you so cool why don't all players already wear them in hot conditions? If it's 32°C outside you're not trying to tell me putting an extra layer will help? I don't care how good some 'skins' claim to be, wearing them in peak summer temperatures is plain daft.

Further, players wear what they are most comfortable in and feel they perform best in. Some find 'skins' restrictive, others prefer them. Why should they be forced to wear unfamiliar gear just to suit one club?

I've used some of these skins, with all their intelligent claims and wonderful technology and have never noticed any difference between them and a normal supportive item.

[size(Doesn't the body sweat in order to keep cool? How would wearing a tight layer that removes sweat keep you more cool?)[/size


These 'morons' had just played on the pitch and know a little more about what caused their injuries than you or I. I think I'll take their opinion over yours.


Not really. I said the ipitch should apparently have been able to cope with the temperatures, and that it clearly caused injuries. Whether some of the rubber crumbs had retained moisture and frozen we don't know, so let's see what a warmer game brings.

I think there is clearly an issue with the ipitch in sub-zero temperatures. What the Matty Ashurst pictures show, is it isn't quite as bad as frozen turf.

We'll have to see how it reacts when the weather is better. It may then just be a case, at worst, of needing a bit of Vaseline or bandage, to prevent grazes. Given the benefits the ipitch could bring, that's a small price to pay.

The jury hasn't even seen all the evidence yet, never mind retired to give their verdict. So, condemning it after just one game makes no sense.

I think they're just trying to point out that you can scrape your knees on things other than an iPitch, and that the conditions may have had more to do with it than the pitch itself.


I've noticed blood in plenty of games. My TV is a 42" HD screen, so plenty big.


Apparently it got as low as -7°C. Parts of the pitch will have been frozen. It WILL have contributed.


No, but the fact that it happened once out of one time doesn't mean it will happen every time. That's the point you're failing to understand. The conditions will have played a part, just like they can, did, do and will at other grounds.


I have, and suffered a lot more, even on supposedly decent pitches. And I only play on the wing.
Players will get scrapes all the time. Some people just jump to conclusions too quickly. I'm surprised Keith Senior hasn't thrown in his two pennies worth yet.


So you don't care about facts, you just want to stick to your own conclusion because it backs you up? What's the point in discussing this then?

Skins take the sweat away from the body. The body sweats to cool down, which you are correct in saying. It does this because the heated moisture is excreted through the skin to the outside of the body so that the body temperature lowers. If that heat stays on the body, the body's heat will stay high (or higher than if it wasn't there). By getting the warm sweat away from the body, the body is kept cooler.

The fact that it's an "extra layer" apparently to you means it will make players warmer. This is just simply not the case at all, whether you refuse to believe it or not.

Perhaps the quality of the skins you were wearing weren't as good as the ones top athletes wear for you to notice a difference?

And some players don't wear them (or haven't tried them) for cultural reasons, i.e. "they look like tarts", similar to why a lot of players never tried them gloves. "Only wussies wear them." Some people will be convinced, not matter what facts tell them, that they aren't helpful. Some players might not get any benefits from them, but I very much doubt they will detract from anyone's game.


They are morons because they have spoken out against their club, who pay them, after one match, against something they have invested a lot of money in. It's moronic. Professionals should keep their opinions to themselves when it comes to the people that pay them.

Whether they or we think/know what caused their injuries is irrelevant. They are speaking out against their club's heavy investment after one round. It's like a Salford player saying their new ground is cr*p.


Apparently it got to -7, so it shouldn't have. You've come to a conclusion very quickly, so I don't see why you'd need to see what happens next.

I don't know how accurate car temperature gauges are, but it said -5 on mine when driving home.

So what if you can scrape yourself on other things? I can scrape myself on a brick wall if I choose to. That's no more relevant than comparing the ipitch to anything else.


So you're saying you've seen so many players with matching grazes/burns on their knees and elbows in one game before? I haven't, and I doubt anyone else has. Please don't try and claim this was normal, it clearly wasn't.


-7°C now was it? Originally it was -4°C. And I never said the weather didn't contribute, but we don't know to what degree (no pun intended).


I'm failing to understand nothing. You're choosing to ignore certain parts of my post and pick up on others.


Ok, if you say so. Odd how I play pack/centre and haven't really suffered?

Anyway, whether we've suffered injuries at amateur level is actually irrelevant. SL pitches are watered and for the most part, kept lush. I've not seen a SL player complain about grazes or burns in the history of summer rugby.

And the fact that players can pick up cuts and grazes on a normal surface is also irrelevant. What we shouldn't be doing is introducing an environment that MAY cause more of these injuries to occur.


Fine, these wonderful materials can cool you in the hottest temperatures (if you believe the sales hype, of course). I'm not arguing about how good these skins are - frankly I don't care. Wearing additional layers in peak temperatures is simply stupid.

Until they are being recommended by the majority of clubs and being worn by players in scorching temperatures, I'll take it with a pinch of salt.


Rubbish. They're entitled to speak out if something bothers them, and if I was a Widnes player convinced the ipitch had cut my legs and arms to ribbons I'd be a bit concerned. Let's not forget Wakefield players also made the same point.

Besides, whether you think they should have spoken out is irrelevant. It's the subject of their complaints that is the issue.


Thanks for that advice. I think I've explained myself enough times. I'm not convinced by the ipitch and as it stands I think it was responsible for plenty of injuries on Friday - BUT - I'm happy to wait for a more temperate game before condemning it.

That clear enough?

According to Widnes' chief executive, Julie Gaskell, it went down to -7. Like I said, my car was only reading -5, so someone's thermometer was out a bit. Probably mine.

rlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME

As no complaints have been made can we now purely refer to any players comments as 'moans'. Thanks in advance

People seem to be confusing the -10 is still playable thing with it not effecting the surface one bit. Technically Salford's pitch was 'playable' yet most would agree also affected.

Good point - compare how brittle some plastic (or blu-tack, or play-doh) gets in the freezer, to what it's like at room temperature of about 20˚C. Maybe at those low temperatures the plastic grass starts to stiffen and behave a bit more like old-fashioned astroturf?

So J20 players can't speak out and voice their opinions? Even Widnes players had complaints before O'Connor told em to shut up

Don't recall saying that anywhere?
Was just clearing up that NO official complaint has been made.

Was worried about the pitch after so many reports of scrapes suffered in the Wakefield game. Conditions of -7C might well be a significant contributing factor. Let's see how it is when the temperatures are above 0...

rlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/16910032rl

You don't play rugby league on a brick wall. But you do play rugby league on a grass pitch and it can give you scrapes. Especially in those conditions. That's why it's relevant and yours is ridiculous. It's a strawman argument.


At that temperature, yes. I bet there were a fair few this weekend.


That's what it was reported as. Not sure where you got -4 from. You were saying that Widnes should complain about the pitch if it was frozen as it should have "frost protection" or something along those lines. You discarded the weather as a factor for that reason as you thought the pitch should have handled it. It didn't, and was never designed to for those temperatures. Does this alter your opinion? If it does, then my point about "jumping to conclusions" is a good one.


What have I ignored? Usually when somebody says this, they tell the person the part they missed...


Maybe you're thicker skinned than me
Until they are being recommended by the majority of clubs and being worn by players in scorching temperatures, I'll take it with a pinch of salt.'"