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Quote: Starbug "Strangely I agree both with this and the above qoted post as well, ultimatly the structure will only achieve so much, how well the structures are managed both by the governing body and the clubs will have a much bigger bearing on their success'"



Although some clubs are contempt, do you not think the current qualifying for a franchise guidelines we have in place are good for the championship teams?

Stadium facilities the biggest one IMO. Needing to win a NRC final or achieving GF status also keeps the playing side of the competition healthy.

Also agree with the post you quoted in your post. Pick a structure and stick to it and give it a chance.

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Quote: cod'ead "[size^^ THIS ^^[/size

I'm astounded that the 5th option hasn't been mentioned

Agreed. The Giants did a bit of marketing for this weekends game and go 3000 more than their last home game against HKR. There are plenty of reasons for a bit of a boost, but not a 3000 increase.

The problems with the game lie primarily with the clubs not doing enough to get people through the gates and put bums on seats. Hull have tried it this season with the season pass promotion, but the general marketing philosophy within Super League seems to be "drop the prices by a few quid and they'll come"; which isn't enough for several reason.

The RFL aren't perfect and there are plenty of problems with their marketing - have a look on the Magic Weekend's website and find the fixtures for example, but the reason for a drop in crowds isn't because of promotion and relegation or licensing, and if it is then get these people back through the gates.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Viva La Vikings!! "Although some clubs are contempt, do you not think the current qualifying for a franchise guidelines we have in place are good for the championship teams?

Stadium facilities the biggest one IMO. Needing to win a NRC final or achieving GF status also keeps the playing side of the competition healthy.

Also agree with the post you quoted in your post. Pick a structure and stick to it and give it a chance.'"


I assume you mean ' content ' , franchising Qualification is irrelivant as long as the Championship clubs are so far behind SL standard, unfortunatly nobody including the RFL has a clue how to improve the Championships or the clubs in it, they are starting to suffer now and it isnt going to get any better

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I personally think that rugby union has the right set-up. P&R but only if the club to be promoted is suitable in terms of stadium etc.

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Quote: Starbug "
Quote: Starbug "Although some clubs are contempt, do you not think the current qualifying for a franchise guidelines we have in place are good for the championship teams?

Stadium facilities the biggest one IMO. Needing to win a NRC final or achieving GF status also keeps the playing side of the competition healthy.

Also agree with the post you quoted in your post. Pick a structure and stick to it and give it a chance.'"


I assume you mean ' content ' , franchising Qualification is irrelivant as long as the Championship clubs are so far behind SL standard, unfortunatly nobody including the RFL has a clue how to improve the Championships or the clubs in it, they are starting to suffer now and it isnt going to get any better'"


From my personal experience and championship our club as a whole, facilities, academy and finances grew slowly in our six years in the championship

Albeit however not everybody's as fortunate as some clubs with finances. I.e. us with ste oconnor

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The idea has grown on me all day but what to do with points in the 2nd half of the season.

I`d be inclined to halve them in all the leagues but especially in the middle league rather than put them to zero in that one.

This still rewards the effort of the first half of the season and give the original championship clubs a small advantage against the 4 relegated.

For me though we also need to seriously look how we pack the grounds across the game rather than milk loyal fans.

We need to get tickets prices down - right down.

Too long we've hitched ourselves to football and ticket inflation.

We`re a northern sport and we are hurting much more in the recession than the south east.

2 hours minimum wage - 12.38 is where we need to be getting a majority of our tickets priced.

That's going to be close to how much you could spend on a few pints in the pub watching it on telly.

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Money and lack of it, is at the root of many of the problems within the game at present.

I also think its wrong for fans to blame the RFL for THEIR clubs inability to generate income.
The money distributed by the RFL be it TV money or other income should be the icing on the cake, not clubs main source of income.

Sadly the sport of RL has become a sport with a few self sufficient clubs, and a large number of clubs surviving off RFL benefits. A few of these benefit clubs are wanting to move off their addiction, but for the vast majority, their appears to be little desire to progress.

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[quote="dally messenger":1gysl9ow]was watching an nfl doco. on one of their teams and they used the term bomb to describe those long high passes from quaterback to running back and i think gibson took that idea, realized you cant throw the ball forward in RL and adapted it to a "bomb" kick we have[/quote:1gysl9ow] [quote="eels fan":1gysl9ow]You poor poor obsessed fat ex vichyballin potato thieving stoaway.[/quote:1gysl9ow]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6679.png



Quote: The Chair Maker "Money and lack of it, is at the root of many of the problems within the game at present.

I also think its wrong for fans to blame the RFL for THEIR clubs inability to generate income.
The money distributed by the RFL be it TV money or other income should be the icing on the cake, not clubs main source of income.

Sadly the sport of RL has become a sport with a few self sufficient clubs, and a large number of clubs surviving off RFL benefits. A few of these benefit clubs are wanting to move off their addiction, but for the vast majority, their appears to be little desire to progress.'"

^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

The figure of 10,000 average fans per game (that I keep repeating) is where the clubs need to be heading for.......at an average of £15 per ticket and £15 residual spend (beer/pies/merch) then the clubs will generate £3,900,000 in income before sponsorship (shirt/player/matchday). Then you have SkyTV putting in another £1,300,000....so your clubs are looking at a turnover of between £5,500,000 and maybe £8,000,000.....all on real income with no need for a "sugar daddy".....this is a sustainable sport, with room to grow.

All clubs with aspirations of being in SL come 2015 should be made to produce a quantifiable business plan,independently audited, as to how they will attempt to get to 10,000 fans and how long they think it will take them. None of this "it's a new stadium, fans will flock to us" or "we'll double the price of our ST's after a year or two cheapies" or my favourite..."we'llsign a few star names and the fans will flock in".....but proper, budgeted and realistic business plans.
The game can't rely on Sugar daddies.....HKA have lost theirs, London lose theirs soon and a few others are complaining....the game needs paying spectators or it will eventually revert back to a semi-pro comp with one or 2 full time teams.....
We know about Crusaders, Wakey and Bradford, together with Salfords near miss, but what the did London say to the Licencing guys last time out? We're on 3,380 average but will try to get it down to under 2k by next time around d040.gif

Before anyone says "but you need a winning team"......you don't. What you need is a winning MARKETING team!

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Quote: SmokeyTA "Similarly, if you were the RFL chairmen you would think why am i dealing with such poorly run clubs who dont attend seminars on sports science and youth development, dont come to the meetings we run on best practice, dont listen to the advice of the clubs who are succeeding, dont take advantage of what we offer them,

and why am i getting the blame for their failure.

When the RFL are doing things to help clubs be successful, and the successful clubs are implementing them and being successful, and the not successful clubs dont even bother to turn up, then whatever adjectives you want in a 'leader' wont make a blind bit of difference.'"

I'm sure Ian Lenegan was clueless until he attended one of the RFL's seminars.

If people aren't turning up to your seminars, maybe they're no good, or simply uninspiring.

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Quote: gutterfax "^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

The figure of 10,000 average fans per game (that I keep repeating) is where the clubs need to be heading for.......at an average of £15 per ticket and £15 residual spend (beer/pies/merch) then the clubs will generate £3,900,000 in income before sponsorship (shirt/player/matchday). Then you have SkyTV putting in another £1,300,000....so your clubs are looking at a turnover of between £5,500,000 and maybe £8,000,000.....all on real income with no need for a "sugar daddy".....this is a sustainable sport, with room to grow.

All clubs with aspirations of being in SL come 2015 should be made to produce a quantifiable business plan,independently audited, as to how they will attempt to get to 10,000 fans and how long they think it will take them. None of this "it's a new stadium, fans will flock to us" or "we'll double the price of our ST's after a year or two cheapies" or my favourite..."we'llsign a few star names and the fans will flock in".....but proper, budgeted and realistic business plans.
The game can't rely on Sugar daddies.....HKA have lost theirs, London lose theirs soon and a few others are complaining....the game needs paying spectators or it will eventually revert back to a semi-pro comp with one or 2 full time teams.....
We know about Crusaders, Wakey and Bradford, together with Salfords near miss, but what the love did London say to the Licencing guys last time out? We're on 3,380 average but will try to get it down to under 2k by next time around You can market all you like, but if the underlying product just isn't interesting to enough people there's only so far you can go. For example, Sky televise netball. Millions have played it. A bit of marketing and it would attract 1000s right?

In the case of RL, we also suffer from it just not being 'interesting enough'. We who DO go think it is, obviously, but we can bang on to each other about how much we love going, but all we're doing then is preaching to the choir. We need to be honest and accept that for a variety of reasons, there are a lot of people, who, confronted with a ton of marketing for say London, will say, "what's the point? There's no star players, they mostly lose, and the games don't matter because they can't even go down. I like a bit of Rugby League, but there's a lot of other stuff to do on a weekend." We can get as frustrated as we like with that attitude ( and don't accuse me of having it, I drive 120 miles round trip to support my team ) but frustration acheives nothing. Realism does.

As you say, London's attendances have dropped. Ask those who've stopped going, why? Not enough marketing? Doubt it.

Don't get me wrong. You're right, there's NOT enough marketing, and when there is, it tends to be unfocused and generally poor. But even a complete transformation in marketing won't be nearly enough without structural change.

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[quote="dally messenger":1gysl9ow]was watching an nfl doco. on one of their teams and they used the term bomb to describe those long high passes from quaterback to running back and i think gibson took that idea, realized you cant throw the ball forward in RL and adapted it to a "bomb" kick we have[/quote:1gysl9ow] [quote="eels fan":1gysl9ow]You poor poor obsessed fat ex vichyballin potato thieving stoaway.[/quote:1gysl9ow]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6679.png



Quote: RLBandit "You can market all you like, but if the underlying product just isn't interesting to enough people there's only so far you can go. For example, Sky televise netball. Millions have played it. A bit of marketing and it would attract 1000s right?'"

It does here and in Aussie.....and I should know, I market it icon_smile.gif

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Quote: cod'ead "We are all aware of Bradford's relatively recent problems but take a look back to when they first started playing in Superleague.

Opposing fans laughed at the music played, pitch announcements, mascots screaming around on beach buggies etc. But it worked

Peter Deakin should have been snapped up by the RFL as their head of marketing at that time, to roll his vision and ideas out across the whole sport and not just one club. I think he was the one person within the game who could have achieved the necessary growth in the sport's profile and made SL a much bigger animal.

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