The truth is Leeds are a completely unknown quantity this season. People predicting leeds to be back up there on the basis of the mitigating factors last season, and people predicting leeds to struggle again based on how poor they were last season are both on dodgy ground. It's impossible to say whether leeds will be up there again or will struggle, nothing can be gleaned from last season due to some of the random factors but nothing can be based on anything before that either, due to the changes in the squad. Basically we don't know whether leeds were as bad as they were last season because of the training ground and injuries, or whether they just aren't very good.

Therefore leeds are a completely unkown quantity.

People will argue for and against but neither is conclusive. We'll have to wait and see.

You are correct on point 1. Think Tigerade has just misread your post.

Think you are being a bit disrespectul on the last point. We had a lot to prove over the last third of the season and wanted to end the season on a high note. In the Super 8s we won 5 out of our 7 games beating Wigan and Hull along the way and narrowly losing to Warrington, which we were unlucky to lose.

Widnes and Catalans still picked up a couple of wins in the Super 8s so saying they threw in the towel is also a bit melodramatic. Fact is we beat both of them and were above them on merit.

You're also being incredibly harsh on our position and results when you consider the extent of injuries we had and the fact we had to blood a number of youngsters who had never played Super League (Fitzsimmons, Douglas) and had a half-back (Hampshire) on the wing. We finished the season with the following players out:

Monaghan, Shenton, Roberts, Lynch, Millington, Massey, Jewitt, Moors, Mariano, Hitchcox, Robson, Tom Holmes, Patrick. 13 players out, 9 of which would probably be in the 17.

Our biggest issue was our arrogance against teams we felt we should be beating such as Widnes, Salford and Hull KR at home. Our performances were pathetic and those teams rightfully took advantage of that.

And if you want comparison purposes, take away 7 of Warrington's wins, they'd have only got 29 points out of the other 46 (just over half available)

Exactly, which is why mid-table is an accurate place to predict them. For me, Segeyaro won't solve all of Leeds' issues (ageing squad, lack of control at half-back, forwards getting easily over-run). I don't think they will be as bad either.

But I do feel they've lost their fear factor.

And Leeds have finished 4th, 5th, 5th, 3rd, 6th, 1st, 9th across the last 7 seasons. Historically, they've always been around the fringes either side of the top 4 bar the treble winning season. Loss of experience hit them hard last season and I think that will continue this year. For me, 6th is a realistic ambition with a transitional squad in progress while finishing top 4 would be a real achievement given strength of other squads.

A lot of people seem to be tipping warrington for the top spot. They clearly haven't been keeping a close eye on our recruitment. Yes, our pack is outstanding(despite currie being out til about june), but we needed to sign a couple of backs and signed none. Our threequarter line is pretty poor.

Whats all these comments about Rhino's training ground flooded ? I've searched the net and cannot find anything about it. I'd imagine something of that magnitude must have cost them a top 8 spot.

With the exception of one win for Widnes vs Wigan, then they, Catalans and Wakefield didn't win any other games except when they faced each other in the final 10 rounds of the season.

Believe it or not some people think we still drive a horse and cart round these parts.

The finishes in the Top 8 playoff era should be taken with a pinch of salt as teams didn't really push as hard. The first time it was reduced to Top 4 playoffs we stormed to the top and kept it for most of the year.

If we lost our "fear factor", then we did alright to then win 5 of our last 6 before the split including beating the eventual CC and GF winners. Our squad is younger than two years ago so the ageing squad line is a poor one repeatively trotted out without thought and it wasn't lack of experience it was lack of a preseason.

What do fans of other clubs honestly think their teams would do if they started the season with over a months less preseason than the opposition? Can't imagine any team not struggling badly.

Wigan nearly got relegated in 2006. 12 months later they were 80 minutes from the GF.

Wigan, Leeds and Saints have a champion pedigree that the other clubs don't have. Warrington have knocked on the door but still aren't quite in that same bracket. Feel free to bookmark this post until next September.

Wigan-with returning injuries and good additions, can't see past them.
Wire- good on paper apart from our average 3/4 line.
Hull- think Kelly is an excellent signing and will make a difference.
Saints- looking to retain their entertainers tag with Matty Smith and two forward signings. More additions to the club include
18000 pillows attached to the seats at Langtree Park.
Leeds- will surprise some and be there and there abouts.
Cas- looking forward to seeing them play free flowing rl with their injuries returning.

Not sure on the rest.

RL desperately needs a Leicester , will we see one ? , hopefully , but probably not

I think Saints have lost that tag recently and I can't see Smith being the one to help them regain it.