FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Martin Gleeson... |
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| Quote: hullbg "Kath Hetherington came out and said on numerous occasions that James Rule oversees the day to day running of the club. Therefore when he decided to take the action he did he was doing so on behalf of the club (the one he ran day to day according to the chairperson).'"
I understand the point. What I'm saying is that in terms of criminal responsibility it doesn't always work that way - it's dependent on the details of the case and none of us know the details.
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Club Owner | 14082 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote: number 6 "
once again our club has had its name dragged through the mud by the past board and ceo, thankfully they have all gone, now its a new year, new regime, new future!'"
lol we've been hearing this since Wilby and Lloyd took over the club, I suppose it has to come true eventually!
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Player Coach | 15521 | |
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Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
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| Quote: Kosh "Think we'll agree to disagree on this one.'"
No, I won't agree to disagree, because you're wrong.
Also, you keep referring to criminal liability - to help you out, I'll remind you again that this is not a criminal case and as such, the burden of proof is significantly lower.
You really ought to bow out of this aspect of the discussion; your wishful thinking is making you look daft.
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Player Coach | 9554 | |
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Jun 2005 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: Adeybull "You mean the same way it wasn't fair to punish Bulls with a bizarre points deduction over the salary cap due to Harrisgate, when the new administration had helped with the investigation and people directly involved had left the club?
But punish they did, nevertheless.
I'm not sure whether any punishment is in order based on the facts of the case as far as we have been made aware of them. But if any IS, then the same logic should hold as did with us.'"
Didnt put that as clearly as I meant Adey. Meant to put that it was unfair to punish Hull with a points deduction as that affects them on the field. If their found guilty of bringing game into disrepute then its largely to do with clubs image and not really an on field issue so should be a fine. They didnt gain any on field advantage from covering up why gleeson wasnt playing. Its the covering up bit they might get done for, not the failed drugs test.
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| Quote: bren2k "No, I won't agree to disagree, because you're wrong.
Also, you keep referring to criminal liability - to help you out, I'll remind you again that this is not a criminal case and as such, the burden of proof is significantly lower.
You really ought to bow out of this aspect of the discussion; your wishful thinking is making you look daft.'"
It's not wishful thinking - it's a difference of opinion. I haven't dismissed your argument out of hand and I've already noted that I could be wrong. Time will tell.
I understand the difference between criminal and civil cases when it comes to the burden of proof. The same guiding principles are involved though and they were the only examples I had personal experience of. If you have a better example that illustrates your argument then I'd be genuinely interested to hear it.
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Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote: bren2k "No, I won't agree to disagree, because you're wrong.
Also, you keep referring to criminal liability - to help you out, I'll remind you again that this is not a criminal case and as such, the burden of proof is significantly lower.
You really ought to bow out of this aspect of the discussion; your wishful thinking is making you look daft.'"
If you're so sure you're right, how come the club haven't been punished?
You're either very arrogant or very stubborn if you can't prove your point but insist that it's right.
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| Quote: Rommel "More controversey from the Hull mob when will it ever change
Its all Radford`s fault.
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International Chairman | 6038 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: Wellsy13 "If you're so sure you're right, how come the club haven't been punished?
You're either very arrogant or very stubborn if you can't prove your point but insist that it's right.'"
Presumably its not within UKAD's remit to punish clubs? Wouldnt the natural sequence be for them to deal with the individuals, with any action against the club taken subsequently by the RFL?
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Player Coach | 15521 | |
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| Quote: Cibaman "Presumably its not within UKAD's remit to punish clubs? Wouldnt the natural sequence be for them to deal with the individuals, with any action against the club taken subsequently by the RFL?'"
Precisely.
What I'm arguing against here is the misguided certainty of some Hull fans, who seem to think that the RFL can't punish the club for the actions of it's employees, simply because there's been a regime change, some resignations or because the individuals were acting independently; all of those assumptions are wrong.
What I'm not arguing however, is that the RFL definitely will punish the club; I believe they should, but I'm not certain they will.
On another matter - am I right in thinking that all three players who've been busted for drug offences in the past couple of seasons are Wigan products?
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Player Coach | 11614 | |
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| Quote: JB Down Under "lol we've been hearing this since Wilby and Lloyd took over the club, I suppose it has to come true eventually!
It's been even longer that we've listened to your lot promising to operate within budget
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May 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: Him "
This argument that because the club has new owners is totally and utterly irrelevant. The new owners bought the club, either they didn't do due dilligence or they got the club cheaper than if there was no impending drugs investigation. '"
I think you might find that any ongoing UKDA investigations are confidential and as such cannot be declared to a 3rd party, even if that 3rd party is in the process of buying the club that the individuals are employed by.
I too would have thought something like this would be revealed through due dilligence until the confidentiality aspect was brought to my attention.
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Player Coach | 2043 | No Team Selected |
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Jan 2007 | 18 years | |
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| Its there forheads that does it for me mate
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 36786 | |
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Jul 2003 | 21 years | |
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| Quote: bren2k "What I'm arguing against here is the misguided certainty of some Hull fans, who seem to think that the RFL can't punish the club for the actions of it's employees, simply because there's been a regime change, some resignations or because the individuals were acting independently; all of those assumptions are wrong.'"
Possibly you could quote the posts by Hull fans where it's been said with [icertainty[/i that the RFL [ican't[/i punish the club? I've certainly made no such assertion, although you apparently think that I have.
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Aug 2008 | 16 years | |
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| Quote: Kosh "Possibly you could quote the posts by Hull fans where it's been said with [icertainty[/i that the RFL [ican't[/i punish the club? I've certainly made no such assertion, although you apparently think that I have.'"
Whatever the problem, surely there's more to life than to be arguing and posting about it at the time you was on NYE
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