I think even expecting Toronto to have players ready for league 1 is a bit much. Many league 1 players will be either affiliated with or have come through SL and Championship academies. There is pretty much no north American players who will have had any youth training whatsoever.

Realistically Toronto will have the vast bulk of their players from the UK/Australia/Pacific for the next 10-15 years minimum. In the meantime all they can really do is take the best young athletes they have and expose them to the best quality players and coaching they can.

Playing League 1 is the right decision. There will be pros and cons to any decision they make. But there would be uproar if they were put straight into SL and there would be shouts of unfair if they were placed in the Championship. Toulouse for one had to come up through League 1. Yes they dominated, lost to Rochdale in the promotion final but managed to get up. And that will have done them the world of good in terms of developing their team, working out combinations. Building support etc. Success builds support.

They already have a number of North American players in their squad:

Ryan Burroughs (who started the CC game), Nathan Campbell, Quinn Ngawati (17 years old), Joe Eichner, Tom Dempsey and Chad Bain. All these players are more likely to be able to compete at League 1 level than in the Championship. If it were the Championship these players (maybe with the exception of Burroughs) wouldn't get a game. At least this gives Toronto the opportunity to play a few of these guys to expose them to a decent standard of RL. Bain for example has played alongside me at NCL level. A full time pre-season and a season at League 1 will do him the world of good as he already knows the game to an extent. Now it's taking the next step.

It's a year of learning. Logistics will be hard at first as it has never been done in RL before. RL has nothing to lose in this venture as Toronto are self funded as well.

Plus it gives the League 1 teams a bit of coverage too. Skolars have already announced record ticket sales for the match this weekend!

People on here as well saying about instability in the system. Yes there is. There are pros and cons with the system. But a lot of you are forgetting that the Super 8's are under review this season. It may get renewed or it may get scrapped. So we just have to wait and see in that respect. Personally I'd give it another 3 years.

And to be fair I think a lot of people are not giving League 1 a basic level of respect here. Let's no forget Toulouse weren't the Champions last season. It was Rochdale.

And since 2003 the league has seen 12 different winners with only York and Dewsbury winning it twice. With 6 different winners in the past 6 years! Granted the likes of Hemel, Gloucestershire, Oxford and Coventry probably won't be competitive, but they are expansion clubs and spreading the game in their respective areas which can only be good for the sport.

They could swap Leeds out for them and put em straight into SL, after all they looked like Championship 1 standard last night.

That's half the league you've listed as uncompetitive. People proclaim the system and admitting the expansion clubs at the bottom as the way to do it but last year the teams who finished top of league 1 and the championships record was played 37, won 34, drawn 2, lost 1. The bottom 3 teams in League 1 won only a game each. That isn't a healthy competition.

The question would be what are they going to learn I league 1 that they A) can apply in the championship and SL and B) that they couldn't learn in the championship and SL.

If we accept the inherent in sustainability of a transnational/transatlantic club in a semi pro league, we have to ask what on earth the benefit is of putting them there even temporarily

4 out of 16 is hardly half? Plus there are NCL Premier sides that are arguably better than half of the League 1 sides anyway. They are there to promote expansion for the game and are doing a decent job of it, if they become really competitive then that is a bonus.

1. Logistics. If Toronto rise through the leagues as predicted it will get harder and more expensive to take teams over. For now they are taking 7? teams over there (in League 1, teams play each other once). In the Championship they will have to take 11 plus any playoffs. Cheaper to take the likes of Oxford over than say Toulouse or even Bradford (number of staff etc).

Also in terms of logistics this league is pretty much Semi-Pro. So they will have jobs too. If the proposed Thursday-Sunday stay in Toronto works then this can be applied to Championship part-time teams too. And maybe the full-time teams, if there is jet lag issues. The full time clubs may decide to spend an extra few days in Toronto so possibly a week stay. This can be sorted out with sponsors, hotels etc for the package deals Toronto are doing.

2. Exposure to Lower Standard. The whole point of Toronto is to expand the game into North America. They are the pinnacle, the standard setter if you like? What is the point in putting them in SL, having 100% of their team English/Aussie and doing it that way? At least in League 1 they have the opportunity to blood some North Americans (Burroughs has already made his debut). When they play their home games they will be winning and the crowd can get behind their home stars such as Ngwati, Bain and Jacks. They wouldn't get a sniff in SL and may suffer heavy losses in their first season in existence if they were up against Cas, Wigan etc.

The thing with putting Toronto in SL is it can go two ways:

1. Fall on it's backside like Crusaders. Yes Crusaders got in the playoffs but there was no sustainability. They developed a handful of Welsh players which was good but you see more of it now in the lower league with North Wales Crusaders and South Wales Ironmen (who have just become the longest reigning professional South Wales RL team ever).

2. Be a success like Catalan. Catalan's first season was littered with foreigners with some French coming through. They finished bottom in their first season but have since gone on to bring through loads of French players to the point where even top English sides are getting them.

But that was with no relegation or having exemptions. Let Toronto start from the bottom and work their way up. Hopefully they will develop talent from over there in the next two years then if they do make it to SL it will be well deserved and they will have earnt it. Plus their North American players should have a firm grasp of the game by then by playing against (progressively harder) opponents.

Sorry for the long reply haha! If it helps, for the record I am all for franchising (IF IT IS DONE RIGHT, unlike last time).

I would also put money on Toronto NOT paying the travel expenses of visiting teams in 2018. The RFL could find themselves in a little bit of a spot next season.

I think they will for the Championship as a lot are still part-time teams and their sponsorship deals might be rubbing their hands at the though of 11 plus teams using their services.

Also I may have heard this wrong, but they are completely funding themselves this season, so no central funding. I would assume that next season they will receive normal central funding from the RFL? Could be wrong though!

I guess it all depends on how much they got for sponsorship. How much that Perez and Argyle are willing to spend out of their own money (one's a multi-millionaire). Also would be interested to know how much that TV deal is worth. As it covers them for more games next season.

An interesting point I've just thought of is are they getting central funding from the RFL (as mentioned above) and are they receiving funding from the Canadian Sport department of the government in terms of funding development work?

Why would anyone watch that competition? It seems damaging to have a chunk of the league whose competitiveness is just an afterthought and another chunk whose only thought is to get out of that league.

I just don't see an awful lot they will learn in this respect. You suggest they will learn something about what works for semi-pro teams but then also suggest it as irrelevant as pro side. Why spend two year learning to operate at a level you won't operate at?


But if these players are good enough to be SL players, then wouldn't they be better exposed to SL? The aim/expectation here is that they won't be a league one side next year. Finding league one quality players seems hugely redundant.

What happens after two years if Toronto get back to back promotions? The expectation that these two years will be good for developing their NA players isn't just an unrealistically heavy burden but builds in its own obsolescence. Plus, even if there were a necessity to expose these 3 or 4 players to league one and Championship RL, wouldn't that be done far cheaper and in a far more stable manner through a dual reg or loan?

Good question. Does anyone (except the teams fans) watch League 1 rugby league anyway? Be interesting to get some statistics around this. The reality is hardly anyone watched League 1 anyway even before these expansion teams. South Wales are doing a good job in promoting RL there, and the likes of Oxford and Hemel are giving more opportunities to members of amateur teams to try make it in a professional environment whilst also promoting RL. So let them carry on. None have gone bust yet which is more than I can say about previous expansion teams as well as one or two established teams.

A lot of leagues are exactly how you describe though? Championship for example, Oldham for example won't be top 4 anytime soon yet they don't want to be relegated, Batley have no ambition to be in SL too so their priority is to finish top 4 and generate money from the SL fixtures whilst staying part time. In football the likes of Bournemouth won't compete yet are in the Premier League. Leagues everywhere usually have the split.



Well they might learn a lot from it even if people don't see it, and they also might not. The reality is neither you nor I or anyone on this forum knows exactly what they will and won't learn. Only they will after they have played a full season.




Are they good enough to be SL players though? The majority of the squad are from Championship side in Leigh who haven't played SL. Some are from Bradford who finished 5th and some couldn't get in the Warrington team. Their halves are Canadian captain from Sheff Eagles and the other from the 2nd tier in Australia. So we won't know what they are like until they play really. We exposed Celtic Crusaders to SL (bottom), Catalan (bottom). Toulouse were expected to play Championship so why didn't we put them there? The fact is you can't treat Toulouse and Toronto any different. In fact where were the calls to put Coventry, Oxford, Gloucestershire and Hemel to bypass League 1?




What if they don't get back to back promotions? They are a new club all together. We can assume they will win League 1 at a canter due to the squad they have recruited. But can they get promoted in a harder Championship? We won't know until they have a crack at it.

My personal idea of a 'Super League' is to have a 14 team competition with a 'franchise' process to determine those 14 teams. No relegation. Keep the same teams for 4-5 years, build stability. Then every so often introduce a new team (ala Gold Coast in the NRL). And increase the number of teams slowly. Everyone else plays in the Championship/Champ 1 (have promotion and relegation between these two) and teams who want SL have to be in the Champ and build on field as well as off before being 'franchised' in.

Each side will have first refusal on local players. Bradford will have first refusal on Bradford amateur team players etc. Some teams will have more amateur teams to pick from like. But that's just my personal idea



Anyway on topic. Let's just see how Toronto get on. Let's enjoy their season in League 1 and the coverage the other teams will receive and the money they receive from this attraction in that league. And hopefully see some development in NA as well

RFL should start looking for an airline to sponsor SL then!

I agree. British Airways would be good.