FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > NRL Draft |
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| You know what else is very popular?
In this very country?
Football.
And they don't have silly draft systems, they do have promotion and relegation, and they don't spend time wasting about making all clubs the same.
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: bramleyrhino "Personally, I'd argue that a "draft" would be worse for addressing our talent pool issues than the current system.
As things stand, we have the best clubs, with the best youth infrastructure, sweeping up the cream of the talent. At these clubs, the players get the best coaching, in the best facilities, and the best academic support (should they not reach their on-field potential). These clubs also have a good record on blooding that talent.
What a draft system is effectively proposing is to send the pick of the talent to inferior clubs, with inferior youth coaching, inferior facilities and inferior academic support. This, in turn, harms their career development. These clubs have also, historically, had poor records when it comes to exposing young talent to first team rugby.
Leeds, St Helens and Wigan don't have the best young players because the best young players only play for Stanningley, St Pats or Blackbrook; they have the best young players because the actively go out, find them, and train them in suitable facilities. Any SL club could do that if it had the inclination to do so.
As it stands, the better, proactive clubs get to keep the better players. Eventually, some of that talent trickles down to other clubs (so in effect, those clubs are investing in players for others to see the return); one of the successes, you could argue, of the salary cap.
I don't see how sending this year's BARLA player of the year to London Broncos is good for the player, the national team, or the Super League as a product.'"
There is sense in such an standpoint, however I don’t think it addresses a draft in the way a draft would actually work.
The way I would see it working would be the RFL through a selection of numerous amateur clubs with access to better coaching and facilities funnelling the best talent to, at 17, the lower league clubs for 2 years. At 19 a player can declare himself available for the draft. If he isn’t drafted he returns to his lower league club and can declare himself available for any draft up until 24 when his contract can be bought out by any club at any time. In terms of a player needing more experience before SL he would continue to be affiliated to that club and available for them whenever he isn’t needed by the SL side.
I would agree that Leeds, Saints, Wigan et al, have the best youth systems because they have gone out and created them. I don’t agree that that means we as a game have the best system to maximise our talent.
Leeds, Saints and Wigan can only bring in so many players, they can only bring through so many players and they can only field so many players. In fact Leeds, Saints Wigan aren’t set up to or focussed on bring through 10-15 players every year because in the most part that would be useless to them. They want one or two coming through most years, 3 or 4 in some the rest are cast off and don’t have the time and effort invested in them. Are Leeds going to put the same time and effort in to The centre opposite Kallum Watkins as they did Kallumn?. The clubs who were best would still be rewarded but the job they would be doing would simply change to ‘polishing the diamond’ rather than digging it out
Its not about simply sending a young player to London, its about the huge change and improvement in youth development it would necessitate. The RFL would need to take control of youth development up until 17, personally I don’t think this is a bad thing, I don’t see a whole lot of benefit for pro clubs being involved at the very lowest level, and what benefit I do so could easily not only be repeated but expanded on by a national pathway.
For example, kids are probably pretty happy and find it pretty useful to have contact with the senior pro’s that’s a good thing, but we could not only have the RFL employ senior pro’s to work with these kids, we could more easily expose more kids to the skills and knowledge of the best. Clubs probably have maybe 6 young halves on their books at any one time? Its not cost effective to have Andrew Johns teach a master class to 6 kids. The 70 best in the country? It becomes a lot more realistic.
Another advantage of going through the national pathway than a club one is the prioritisation of the players development. The one and only consideration regarding that players development is that they become the best player they can be for their career, at a club, and this applies to all clubs, players are expected to fill in as and when needed, think of how much time Carl Ablett spent at centre as a young player when he is an out an out ball playing second rower. Ablett lost development time in his eventual position, not only in gaining skills and experience there but in the training and physical training he had to do to fill in there. Under a draft system Ablett would have trained to be a ball playing second rower, played lower league as a ball playing second rower, and come in to a team who needed a ball playing second rower.
Its about making sure the development of the player is prioritised, its about bringing each cohort through in a cogent way that gives more of them the best chance of a career in RL, its about helping them become the best player they can be and getting them playing where they are needed to be.
Its about changing the focus from Leeds having a successful youth academy for Leeds, to the game having a successful pathway for everyone.
So yes throwing a young player at London doesnt really achieve much, but having a pathway where more players achieve more of their potential will give us more better players to choose from, and more better players playing SL.
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: declaration "You know what else is very popular?
In this very country?
Football.
And they don't have silly draft systems, they do have promotion and relegation, and they don't spend time wasting about making all clubs the same.'"
they also only exist thanks to a massive debt bubble reliant not only on high tv revenues but growing tv revenues. Football in this country is an absolute basket case and a success in spite of its set up, not because of it and it is being left behind in terms of profits and sustainability by many sports.
Its not a question of IF but WHEN it all comes crashing down.
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| People have been predicting the "crash" of Premier League football for years.
In reality, it's only getting more popular domestically and around the world. And its only getting more important in terms of selling TV, broadband, mobile phones, and newspapers.
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: declaration "People have been predicting the "crash" of Premier League football for years.
In reality, it's only getting more popular domestically and around the world. And its only getting more important in terms of selling TV, broadband, mobile phones, and newspapers.'"
There is a limit to the usefulness of that and it is pretty much specific to the premiership. The lower leagues in football get more money from their PL solidarity payments and parachute payments than they do from their TV deal.
There wont be a crash, there will be a big rationalisation if they don’t move to a European league. A couple of decades ago Italian football was the main league in Europe, it is struggling massively now. Outside of the big clubs in Spain its crazy. Even a huge club like Valencia are barely keeping the lights on.
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41801_1347868969.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_41801.png |
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| Whilst I like the idea in principle, and do agree that there are potential benefits to both youth development in a pure sense, and better distributing talent (conditional on such a system being run competently by the centre), this is just far too far away to be plausible unless the RFL really go for it and begin by buying up the existing pathways owned by clubs - which I really don't see happening - and actually really back franchising, which after half-heartedly trying it they've backed away from again now.
It has potential in the new 2x12/3x8 system, if it became a properly franchised setup with 24 spots (and equal salary caps); you could begin the drafting process with the bottom 8 clubs (as the last 7 matches effectively become trials, might as well make them trials for the next crop of hot prospects) whilst the Playoffs occur with other teams. That would really inspire mobility between the leagues - without which the middle tier could get very ugly very fast.
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| Football is a big Ponzi scheme, dependant on an ever increasing flow of cash in. So far this has happened. When it does stop we are not going to clean up because the whole of sport will feel the backlash.
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| What about regional centres of excellence to help those who are not on the radar of the big clubs? This would also help the big clubs spot their next targets rather than having to do all that driving around.
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Levrier "What about regional centres of excellence to help those who are not on the radar of the big clubs? This would also help the big clubs spot their next targets rather than having to do all that driving around.'"
thats how i would assume it would work, the best youngsters would be filtered through to the best amateur sides, and the best of those would be filtered through to regional centres of excellence.
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58216_1342011610.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_58216.jpg |
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| Terrible idea IMO. A lot of good points above.
I just don't see how, or why, we could/would do this?
A better way to achieve what we want would be to force clubs to spend x amount of money from the TV deal towards youth development. It's crazy that we are even at a stage where we have to force clubs to do this.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "thats how i would assume it would work, the best youngsters would be filtered through to the best amateur sides, and the best of those would be filtered through to regional centres of excellence.'"
Which is the sane way to do youth development, no question.
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71650_1388748367.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_71650.jpg |
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| Here's my take on a draft;
I lived in North America for a fair few years where a draft system is used in all four of their sports. It's an interesting concept but one I feel is mainly done for two institutions; the Universities (or Colleges as they are so adorably referred to) and the media. Basically if a University can produce a top draft pick the hype going into that athletes final year of Uni is massive, they sell merchandise with that guys name on, they sell out stadiums and arenas. Most importantly the University can place that players name in their portfolio to poach the next high school star.
The media have a field day, there's the pundits blabbering on about the draft prospects, there's the 24hr TV coverage on draft day, there's the combine shows (basic fitness tests).
This whole think is repeated four times a year... American Football, Baseball, Basketball and Hockey.
It is rare for a player to play for their hometown team, ever. To be honest I find that part of the beauty of RL, the fact local lads can go from the terraces to the turf so to speak.
One way it could maybe, possibly work is for each team to take their own top 3 players at the end of the U-19 season. The rest can be placed into a big pot and ranked. With either the bottom team from the previous season (if no relegation) or the newly promoted championship team getting first dibs. But do you really think the likes of Wigan, Saints or Wire are going to actually take London/Wakefield/Widnes (with all due respect) rejects?
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Ders "Here's my take on a draft;
I lived in North America for a fair few years where a draft system is used in all four of their sports. It's an interesting concept but one I feel is mainly done for two institutions; the Universities (or Colleges as they are so adorably referred to) and the media. Basically if a University can produce a top draft pick the hype going into that athletes final year of Uni is massive, they sell merchandise with that guys name on, they sell out stadiums and arenas. Most importantly the University can place that players name in their portfolio to poach the next high school star.
The media have a field day, there's the pundits blabbering on about the draft prospects, there's the 24hr TV coverage on draft day, there's the combine shows (basic fitness tests).
This whole think is repeated four times a year... American Football, Baseball, Basketball and Hockey.'" Wouldnt that be brilliant for the lower leagues (the parallel to college in this example) and the game in general? The draft process writes a brilliant narrative for the player, something RL fails massively to do.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Wouldnt that be brilliant for the lower leagues (the parallel to college in this example) and the game in general? The draft process writes a brillian narrative for the player, something RL fails massively to do.'"
Good point, if the talent pool was taken from the Championship teams rather than the SL U-19 rejects. How would the Championship teams feel if the big clubs were taking their best players especially if promotion and relegation was on the table?
Completely agree with the narrative though, it's actually something most British sports fail to do consistently.
I just think a carbon copy of the NFL, NBA, NHL etc draft wouldn't fly here
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| I don’t think a carbon copy would work either, we aren’t set up in that way and American sports seem to take their players a year or two later. Most of the best RL players will be in and around squads at 18/19, in America many are in college at this time, or in baseball in the minor leagues (FWIW I don’t think the MLB type development concept makes a whole lot of sense) and don’t hit the big leagues for a year or two, and in Baseball and Football especially often a bit longer than that.
I think a youngster playing at least 2 years in the lower leagues would be better for their development than in the SL youth leagues, and it would write the first part of their story. When Tomkins came through at Wigan, and Watkins at Leeds there were fans who knew about them and were excited about them, I think if they had come through a higher visibility Championship or C1, the fans of those clubs would be excited about seeing them, the game in general would be excited to see how they step up, and the club who got them would be excited about seeing their highly rated new addition.
It gets people talking, gets the players visibility, and it gives a club something to sell and it perpetuates hope for the entire league, the draft is American sports best sales and marketing tool in my opinion. (aswell as being a good way of distributing talent and developing players)
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