I think the extra ball handling role has gone to the full back these days with the likes if Tomkins, Slater, etc. The loose's role is now simply a utility forward: either an extra back rower or extra prop.

Why and how? I disagree with his assessment of O'Loughlin, whether he comes from Saint Helens or Carcassonne wouldn't alter that.

At Wire we have Ben Harrison who imo is a prop, a hard working, fit prop.

It works for us to have the extra prop because we have the creativity elsewhere, Briers, Myler, M.Monaghan, Hodgson, Ratchford, O'Brien and to some extent Grix and Bridge (both played at Loose at some point too)

We have that much that we can have the luxury of having more grunt in the pack.

If we were talking about the starting 13 for the world cup for England, i would go for Heigington. I had the feeling not a lot of fans supported him, maybe becuase of the reason he was playing for us. However i think we should give him another go.

he was p*ss poor last year, a change of club may help him, but still doubt he'll even make the england squad next year

I'd be disappointed if Wigan signed him in all honesty.

As for Loose Forward, it's nice to see a position with conflict over the best qualities, gives team different strategies - formations in RL can be a little formulaic otherwise. For me, the players that scream Loose Forward to me in the modern game are S.Burgess, O'Loughlin, Bird, G.Stewart, Gallen, Blair (when he doesn't suck) and Sinfield. Just Forwards with an aspect of ball playing in their game.

Beyond this I'm surprised teams haven't tried... I don't know off the top of my head, dual hookers more like NZ with Luke/Leuluai, sometimes St.Helens with Roby who could make an interesting choice at loose. Or even a proper floating 3 man backrow: instead of Left/Tight/Right make set plays around them all stacking one side or something. I mean Leeds played with 3 halves with Sinfield at loose which worked for a long time. Hell, even James Graham would make a fantastic loose forward imo.

Then again I'm still surprised no team has had the balls to try out a dual fullback system, I was quietly hoping Souths might try it with Merrit being a shadow to anyone with an offload and Inglis taking the ball-playing/destructive runner role like normal.

Paul Gallen every single day of the week.

Except when an extra Pivot with defensive prowess is needed then a Sean O'Loughlin type

Or Kevin Sinfield when you want pin back a defence with world class kicking game and a great rugby brain.

Or just have Hanley there

1 day Joe Westerman at his very best, taking the game seriously, might make a decent out & out 13.


As for Cas, we'll either use 13 as an extra prop, this year Millo may play there.

I think that's the problem in the modern game, coaches don't seem to know what an out and out 13 is.

6ft 2 ins, 17 stone, 100 metres in 10.5 sec, top quality tackler, decent step (on either foot), sublime passing skills, reads the game.
That should cover it but, the reality is that we have to make do with a player that has some of these attributes that best suits the other players in the team.

Most have a ball playing forward that will tackle.

I think we've all seen enough of Westerman to know that him taking the game seriously and playing at his very best, would be the best 13 in this country by a long way. Upto now hasn't fulfilled his potential

Because there is no such thing as an "out and out 13". It depends entirely on the balance of your side and how you use your half-backs, full-back and second rowers.

About the only pre-requisite is that they should be able to defend in the middle third, all else is about where they slot into the team pattern.

the out-and-out loose forward has died, as most sides have moved the extra ball handling role to the fullback, while the average hooker has also become faster and more manouverable, the end result being sides can benefit more from an extra hard-running forward than a a fifth ball player.

O'Loughlin, Wilkin and Westerman are just about the only ball playing loose forwards left in top level super league, and so by default, they're the best in that mould.

In terms of the big tackling loose forward, Leeds have three-Ablett, Bailey and Clarkson. Warrington have Harrison, Hull KR have Lovegrove & Catalans have Baitieri. Of those, Baitieri & Harrison are the best looses that aren't mostly used elsewhere.

Funny how no one has mentioned Danny Washbrook at Wakefield.
Top Superleague tackler last season.
Ball handler, can play stand off, and scores a fair number of tries.

Doesnt John Wilkin get a mention? When you're asking for a player to be built and run like a forward, yet be able to pass, step, kick and read a game like a half back, imo you have to say Wilkin shows most of those attributes naturally.