| FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Toulouse Poor Crowd |
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When seagulls follow a trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.
A French artist
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*Championship Prediction Competition: 2009 (1st): |
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Mate you took me wrong, the day when it was said 2000 by the RFL was for the Leigh match. For this match, Toulouse announced 3500 spectators. I thought it was completely ludicrous given what I could see on telly which was indicating more like 2000. Supporters from both Toulouse and Leigh said they thought the number of spectators was around 2000 on both the Leigh and Toulouse forum. We had a debate on this here where I criticised the Toulouse number (sorry it is in French):
www.rugbyforumxiii.com/forum/vie ... a&start=30
Now I was not at the Haven game and there was no telly so what I say is just that if there was around 2000 people at the previous match I can't see it being divided by two.
- First Toulouse is winning
- Second the media coverage is on the increase both in the newspapers and on the equivalent of the local BBC (local France 3)
- Third, while the Leigh match was in a stadium 15min away from downtown and not to easy to access, the Haven match was right into the city, accessible by metro. This must have made the decision to attend easier for locals.
- Finally, Toulouse was gathering 1500-2000 for important games in the French league last year. I don't see them gathering less in matches of the Championship which has improved the interest of the locals in the team.
With all these factors, there is no way I can imagine a 1000 crowd for this match. As much as I criticised the 3500 number given in the press for the Leigh match, I think that the 2000 number given for the Haven match must be close to reality.
To be exact, this time Toulouse gave a number of 2121 to the press, while the RLF gave a 2300 number on their website. Toulouse says they use their ticket system to give the number. |
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Mate you took me wrong, the day when it was said 2000 by the RFL was for the Leigh match. For this match, Toulouse announced 3500 spectators. I thought it was completely ludicrous given what I could see on telly which was indicating more like 2000. Supporters from both Toulouse and Leigh said they thought the number of spectators was around 2000 on both the Leigh and Toulouse forum. We had a debate on this here where I criticised the Toulouse number (sorry it is in French):
www.rugbyforumxiii.com/forum/vie ... a&start=30
Now I was not at the Haven game and there was no telly so what I say is just that if there was around 2000 people at the previous match I can't see it being divided by two.
- First Toulouse is winning
- Second the media coverage is on the increase both in the newspapers and on the equivalent of the local BBC (local France 3)
- Third, while the Leigh match was in a stadium 15min away from downtown and not to easy to access, the Haven match was right into the city, accessible by metro. This must have made the decision to attend easier for locals.
- Finally, Toulouse was gathering 1500-2000 for important games in the French league last year. I don't see them gathering less in matches of the Championship which has improved the interest of the locals in the team.
With all these factors, there is no way I can imagine a 1000 crowd for this match. As much as I criticised the 3500 number given in the press for the Leigh match, I think that the 2000 number given for the Haven match must be close to reality.
To be exact, this time Toulouse gave a number of 2121 to the press, while the RLF gave a 2300 number on their website. Toulouse says they use their ticket system to give the number. | |
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Interesting to see on the Barrow forum that their fans are also claiming the actual attendance for that game was half of the published attendance at the most. Toulouse are not going to win friends by repeatedly inflating their attendances to impress the RFL.
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| Quote: Marrafan "Interesting to see on the Barrow forum that their fans are also claiming the actual attendance for that game was half of the published attendance at the most. Toulouse are not going to win friends by repeatedly inflating their attendances to impress the RFL.'"
Spoke to a Bradford fan today who said there was no way near 7k at Catalogue Stadium. |
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| Quote: Marrafan "Interesting to see on the Barrow forum that their fans are also claiming the actual attendance for that game was half of the published attendance at the most. Toulouse are not going to win friends by repeatedly inflating their attendances to impress the RFL.'"
I assume you have proof of your accusation? Because accusing a club of trying to defraud the RFL based on what you read on an internet forum, without any evidence, isn't too clever.
Personally, I would take official figures over the "my mate was there and he reckons..." auditing technique. Unless the travelling Barrow, Leigh and Haven fans included at least one 'Rain man'-esq idiot savant able to count crowds with one glance - or have since studied panoramic photos of the stadium on game day and counted every soul there - they have absolutely no basis to make the accusation. |
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| Quote: CumberlandsAshes "I assume you have proof of your accusation? Because accusing a club of trying to defraud the RFL based on what you read on an internet forum, without any evidence, isn't too clever.
Personally, I would take official figures over the "my mate was there and he reckons..." auditing technique. Unless the travelling Barrow, Leigh and Haven fans included at least one 'Rain man'-esq idiot savant able to count crowds with one glance - or have since studied panoramic photos of the stadium on game day and counted every soul there - they have absolutely no basis to make the accusation.'"
So how do you explain the Toulouse fans quoting similar figures to those estimated by visiting fans?  |
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When seagulls follow a trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.
A French artist
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*Championship Prediction Competition: 2009 (1st): |
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Well this time nobody criticised the number given by Toulouse.
When we talked on the Toulouse forum of the numbers it was for the Leigh match where the RFL was giving 2000 and Toulouse was giving 3500 in the local press. I wrote at the club stating that there was a problem and I got a very serious and concerned answer saying "We don't know how the RFL compute their numbers, we use the number of tickets sold. We highly value the fact to give accurate numbers.". I thought at that time, well maybe a part of the difference is due to tickets sold to sponsors which do not end up being really used by anybody (but is is just a wild guess).
I think at least something interesting is that the numbers given by Toulouse and the RFL are now very close:
Whitehaven: 2150 for Toulouse / 2300 for the RFL
Barrow: 2850 for Toulouse / 2900 for the RFL
Interestingly the numbers given by Toulouse are a tad smaller than those on the RFL website.
Apart if there is a blatant problem, I prefer to assume good will. Toulouse have demonstrated lots of professionalism so it is not unreasonable to assume that they give the numbers in a professional way too.
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I love it when people claim they think the crowd is higher/lower to fit their opinion.
I take a guess most times at the crowd at Barrow and almost invairably get it wrong.
I guess people like Marrafan must be too busy counting people at the ground to enjoy the rugby, sad man.
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| Quote: Marrafan "Not a bit of wonder their average is so good. I was at the Haven game there would be lucky if there was a thousand there never mind 2300. Probably only a fraction of that paid. No doubt the RFL will hold the crowd figures up as a good indicator of the interest in the area blah blah.
If they gave the true figures out they would be a lot further down that table. Just like Celtic Crusaders last year exaggerating everything to get their franchise.'" Start worrying about your own attendances before picking on Toulouse and Celtic.
Only 39,000 watched the Haven v Widnes match on TV so the Champioship has to raise its profile and knocking Toulouse is not the way to do it. Persoanlly, I'd like to see the likes of Pia, Lezignan, Limoux and Carcassonne in too to bring an added Anglo-French rivalry to the competition. |
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Regret to say that 'knocking-back' crowd numbers by 'fans' is nothing new - it's been going on for years. In particular from clubs who have feel they are going to be hurt by these gates etc.
However know it's a load of balls......no club will inflate it's gate for two reasons that they have to pay a percentage of the gate monies to the RFL and second the local 'tax' office will be noting these numbers and checking them against the VAT/TVA paid or payable.
To be quite frank no club will 'inflate' their gate as it's going to cost them 'higher' tax payments........
So suggest Barrow, Widnes, Fev. & Leigh fans SHUT UP otherwise you may have HM C&E/Inland Rev. 'black' squad starting to take an 'interest' in your own returns.
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There are many ways to inflate an "attendance" without actually doing anything to affect tax bills etc. Just so you know.
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Sure, but that's through freebies - which would be real attendence and not the imaginary attendence implied.
Usually you would expect attendence to be higher than turnstiled attendence, since it goes on tickets "sold" (including freebies).
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When seagulls follow a trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.
A French artist
_______________________________________
*Championship Prediction Competition: 2009 (1st): |
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Are there lots of free tickets which end up not being used? If so it could explain the difference between the official number and what we can see in the stadium...
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| Quote: belgianxiii "Sure, but that's through freebies - which would be real attendence and not the imaginary attendence implied.
Usually you would expect attendence to be higher than turnstiled attendence, since it goes on tickets "sold" (including freebies).'"
Indeed. Wouldn't be surprised if there have been a number of free tickets given away for each game that haven't been used, but have included in the attendance anyway (which, considering virtually every other club in the UK operates this practice, is fair game) |
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| Quote: stormingbronco "Regret to say that 'knocking-back' crowd numbers by 'fans' is nothing new - it's been going on for years. In particular from clubs who have feel they are going to be hurt by these gates etc.
However know it's a load of balls......no club will inflate it's gate for two reasons that they have to pay a percentage of the gate monies to the RFL and second the local 'tax' office will be noting these numbers and checking them against the VAT/TVA paid or payable.
To be quite frank no club will 'inflate' their gate as it's going to cost them 'higher' tax payments........
So suggest Barrow, Widnes, Fev. & Leigh fans SHUT UP otherwise you may have HM C&E/Inland Rev. 'black' squad starting to take an 'interest' in your own returns.'"
Wrong you pay vat on money into the club,not on stated attendances that is why lots of clubs give kids free tickets away. |
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| Quote: Leyther_Matt "Indeed. Wouldn't be surprised if there have been a number of free tickets given away for each game that haven't been used, but have included in the attendance anyway (which, considering virtually every other club in the UK operates this practice, is fair game)'"
Last year, when Wigan swam to victory against us, our ground was supposedly sold out, but was only 95% full. It doesn't just have to be freebies, it can also just be last minute change of plans. |
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