Quote bewareshadows="bewareshadows"I see no problem with points being given back for paying off debt. However, I would not give them back on the promise of paying off debt.
Sure if someone is coming in with x amount of money and is promising to pay the debt, then you could assume it will happen. If someone is coming in promising to pay off the debt, but we will need £500k upfront to buy the business and pay the debt, it's a different matter.
I do think it's all a bit fudge like. I'm not a fan of discretionary rules and the rules should be fixed 6 point deduction reducing on a percentage of debt paid. If 100% is paid then no deduction as no advantage gained.'"
but 100% could still be paid, meaning Bradford could very well 'buy' themselves out of relegation. Im sure that will go down well.
Quote bewareshadowsAs for who has the 6 points deducted, I feel the name smoke and mirrors should be applied rather than just plain smokey.
The 6 points is deducted from the Bradford Bulls on the sporting side. Who ever is the owner of the Bulls carries that forwards. Currently the administrator.'"
The playing side doesnt exist as anything other than an activity of the Business which owns it.
You are here, arguing that the 'playing side' should be punished for the activities of the 'business side' but also that that the 'playing side' is a completely seperate entity which exists entirely independantly of the 'business side' these are mutually exclusive standpoints.
Quote bewareshadowsI know you are using word play to try and argue differently. But it's just words. When a club goes into admin mid-season, when they are bought out, they do not start as a new club on 0 points. They carry forward points gained by the previous club. This is because they buy all assets of the club tangible and intangible. '"
it isnt word play, its just not allowing you to both have your cake, and eat it. The new business does not buy all the assets, tangible and intangible. They simply buy some of them from the administrator, or they buy the entire company.
Quote bewareshadowsThis is what I have stated all along, there is a financial side which is penalized by the club going into admin. But the sporting assets could build up an unfair advantage that is never penalized. The only way to penalize the sporting side is to have a sporting rule which is a points deduction.'"
Then you need to treat the sporting side and business side as one and the same, which is incompatable with what you have said above.
Quote bewareshadows
Where as the law of the land can govern on finance it cannot govern on sporting rules. That can only be decided on by the sports governing body.'"
The rules of the governing body need to be followed, they cant arbitrarily decide things. The rules of the governing body cannot contravene the laws of the land.
Quote bewareshadowsIf a player is banned for x number of matches, if a club is docked points for fielding an ineligible player. These are not things a court of the land can account for. '"
You are wrong.
Quote bewareshadowsThe 6 points is a sporting penalty nothing more or less it has nothing to do with who owns the venture, just to do with gaining an unfair sporting advantage the same as fielding 14 players or passing the ball forwards.'"
It is entirely to do with who owns the venture for numerous reasons. 1. The punishment is for the actions of who owns the venture and is mitigated by the actions of who owns the venture. 2 The venture does not exist outside of the activities of who owns it.3. As you say here, this is a punishment for sporting advantage apparently gained by the actions of who owns the venture. They are unarguably and irrevocably linked.
Quote bewareshadowsIt has been widly accepted in most sports, only some Bradford fans have argued that they should be treated differently to the rest of the sporting world. I think this is due to some ingrained belief that their place at the top table is sacred.'"
I do wish that people wouldnt equate 'most sports' with soccer.
