So, when did it start to go wrong for Cas? For me when they decided to rest players against Hull two weeks ago. Before then they were flying, they should have kept that intensity going.

How many times do you see ‘in form’ teams rest players / have a week off (old playoff format) and it cost them dearly.

They played Hull and were well beaten, they go on to perform poorly (for them) against a determined Saints team with a solid pedigree for winning big games when it matters and were ten seconds from going out.

They scrape through that and then don’t bother showing up for the final.

Plenty to learn for Powell it seems!

I'm not sure if the changes against Hull were a big thing. Think they just found out there's a different level of pressure and nerves when it comes to playoffs and they couldn't handle that as a group.

Wires wouldn't have, and we'd have lost as well.

Madness isn't it.

It certainly is a gamble and on a wet October Old Traffprd night it would be my choice. However, Sinfield taking the two against us (Wire) at Wembley backfired IMO as it showed a lack of confidence, or a weakness on that occasion and seemed to spur us on.

I'm not knocking Sinfield's or Leeds' winning record BTW how could anyone? However, nor do I condemn Cas as being arrogant as some have suggested. Sometimes you have to back yourself and the boost for Leeds wasn't Cas showing them a lack of respect, but, the fact that Leeds kept them out.

Funnily enough in the 2015 GF Sinfield turned down kickable penalties on more than one occasion when the scores were level at 6-6 and we scored from the resulting sets, guess you just have to feel how the game is going

Totally agree mate, for some reason some fans (Wire fans especially) ignore the fact that in over 100 years of rugby league, the league leaders were only declared champions in a brief 25 year period between the 70s-90s

The fact is also ignored that before the change in the 1970s Leeds were league leaders and failed to win the title on at least 3 occasions IIRC, and I dont remember Wigan rolling over for us in 2015 because we were the best team

Having said that I do fully accept that we have 'stole' Cas' title this year and I fully expect them to win at least one in the next 2/3 years

Fair point about Sinfield at Wembley, but the two finals are completely different I reckon. I've been to both now multiple times with us and a couple of times as a neutral and the intensity of the occasion is far greater at the Grand Final than the Challenge Cup Final. Wembley feels like a day out that everyone is happy to be involved in. Old Trafford is far more tense. The worst example ever of not taking two was Wires at 16-2 (I think) up in the 2013 GF. I was screaming for it and couldn't believe we passed them up. I acknowledge no one could really have predicted the nightmare couple of minutes that followed which completely swung the pendulum of the game, but even so, there's not a chance Sinfield or Pat Richards would have allowed that. They'd have marched straight over and demanded the tee.

I know people always say "Play the game, not the occasion", but I don't really agree. Games during the season are not the same as the Grand Final and you don't play it the same way. I think Wires tried to, certainly in 2012 and 2013, and Cas probably thought they could too. Wigan, Leeds and the great Bradford and Saints teams manage the game far better.

I'd got my head in my hands when we refused the 2 points. Madness!! The game could have had a totally different complexion if we'd have taken them. Who refuses an easy 2 points less than 3 minutes into a Grand Final in the rain?! arghhhhhhhhh!! I'm still shaking my head about it now. When big games come along, rightly or wrongly, I always think 'what would Sinfield do?' (one of the best big game players I've ever seen) - he'd have taken them. Would have settled the nerves and got the scoreboard ticking. We didn't handle the occasion, pure and simple - we bottled it last night. Us fans turned up, the team didn't. It's been a great season for us though, and I've had more than my moneys worth of entertainment out of my season ticket. The transition from a good team into a champion team isn't something that happens overnight, and it is far from easy. Hopefully we can learn from this experience and be a better team for it over the coming seasons. Well done Leeds, the better side by far on the night and deserved to lift the trophy. I'm sure our time will come at some point.

I reckon Cas lost focus at the start of the Super 8's only needing 1 or 2 wins for the play offs, lost to Saints in the 1st round, struggled for half the game against Salford in the 2nd round. Then had to push along a bit to get the LLS at the same time the other teams were knocking each other out to get top 4. Guaranteed a home draw in the playoffs job was half done and players were rested causing different playing combinations.

Come play off time, Leeds-Hull-Saints had a bit of momentum and the semi finals were probably the toughest matches for intensity and pressure, Cas were probably slightly undercooked for this final in terms of mental toughness and basically choked on the atmosphere of Old Trafford.

2 of the 3 times Cas turned down the 2 points on offer they almost scored so if we're playing ifs buts and maybes - there's 12 points instead of 6 that were bombed.

McGuire dislodged the ball from Eden just as he was about to dive over and the other was disallowed for an obstruction where nobody was obstructed (granted we never got to see if the ball was actually grounded anyway....)

Anyone know anyone good at Tattoo removals?

Just have 'NOT' tattooed at the top.

Or replace 'WINNERS' with 'CHOKERS'.

Either way, it'd be accurate.

Could change the “F” to an “R” - might be unpalatable to the owner but at least it would be accurate

Might be a long shot, but does anyone happen to know what the music was that the players walked out to?