People aren't paying in large numbers for it as this cheap and cheerful day out as we have now either. For a business to work You can either sell lots of things at a low price or fewer things at a higher price. We are selling few things at a lower price. You know what that should tell us? You know what not selling the cc final out with cheap tickets should tell us? What not selling out Wembley for a WC final double header with 3 of the 4 best teams in the world with tickets for a tenner should tell us? You know what RFU selling out twickenham for 50 a head tells us. Price isn't driving demand. That we can't win by being cheap because staying at home is always going to be cheaper. It also tells us, like the premier league does, like the nfl international series does, like the RFU does, people will pay a premium price for a premium product.

boxing is a good example, poor quality fights are cheap as chips to attend. The big fights are incredibly expensive. Yet more people go to the big fights than the poorer ones.


If we sell at a premium price we need to provide a premium product so our first action is to stop selling crap. If the standard outside the top 4 is too poor then we improve the standard outside the top 4.

And if you go to a Mariah Carey concert and there are no big screens, aging speakers, your seat is falling apart, you have to queue for an hour for a poor selection of drinks and food and crap 2nd rate merchandise, but she sings like an angel it's still going to be a bit of a crap evening

I agree improve the product - until you do that you can't charge top dollar. RU charges top dollar because their demographic can afford to pay - I went to England v Australia at Twickenham £1,000 a head for corporate, glad I wasn't paying. Can't see many northern folk spending their company's brass like that.

So how do you go about creating a truly elite SL - first reduce the numbers of teams to 10 maximum, increase the salary cap to 2m and ensure those teams left spend to that level if they can't afford then they don't get a franchise. Encourage the RFL to get better and bigger sponsors etc. You can't dress a swatch up to be a Rolex the public are not stupid. If you want to charge more then you have to deliver more.

If Mariah Carey singings well I don't care if I can't get a meat pie or I pay £4 for a pint of beer, I pay that at Headingley. Equally I would be pretty hacked off if she couldn't sing but the pies were great and I paid £2 a pint. It is the main event you are paying for Wigan v Hull was a terrible CC final despite being played in the most superb surroundings. England v NZ WC semi would have been a great game no matter where it was played.

And yet more people paid to go watch Wigan v Hull than England v NZ. Our product is simply bigger than the 80 mins on the field.

Weren't you criticising the RFL for not announcing details of next years test series the other day? I do agree that is embarrassing btw. A crowd of 67,000 for our last international at Wembley (against a less marketable opponent,) isn't that far behind the '92 crowd, despite the mass mistakes made internationally from 1996-2010.

And why is a year long promotion campaign for a match a bad thing? If anything, we need more promotion in order to attract decent attendances. On the ludicrious ticket prices, what price were the tickets for the GB vs Australia game in 1992 by comparison. I'm assuming you knew the prices weren't ludicrously cheap?

Agree with that. It's also a different age. People have far far more choice of leisure activities today than they did in 92 and a trip to London was still a big deal back then. Its necessary to have a marketing campaign, even football have to market some of the less enticing England games.

There were plenty of mistakes made 96-2010 (and continue to be). The loss of tours and especially 3 Test Series being the major ones in my opinion.
I like the Tri/4 Nations (credit goes to Richard Lewis for getting it up and running) and I think it should be expanded to 5 Nations, but it shouldn't have been at the expense of Test Series. The 3 match series are great for getting RL in the media and getting us noticed.
There could have bee much greater scope for 3 test series from 2003 to now.

Unfortunately a lot of it comes down to the fact that there are (effectively) only 2 governing bodies. If there were more, 4 or 5 say, then we'd have to have a central body like FIFA (hopefully without the rampant corruption) to oversee and organise international affairs. With only 2 governing bodies and effectively 3 nations it comes down to the most powerful/richest governing body having the final say. Sadly the Aussies are quite insular about the international game and whilst their insularity is often overplayed to cover up some problems it is a big issue in the sport. Hence the lack of a set international calendar and the lack of mid-season internationals.

The official attendance for the BIG HIT double header semi finals event during the RLWC was 67,575 but that figure includes Club Wembley which accounts for 16,532 seats. Anyone who attended knows that very few of those Club Wembley seats were occupied, therefore the real attendance was closer to 53,000.


Who claimed that a year long promotion campaign is a bad thing?


I don't recall the exact price I paid but it was a relatively decent seat at the old Wembley in the middle to upper tier region behind one of the corner flags and I paid something like £25 for mine. There were cheaper seats behind the sticks but they won't have been a great deal cheaper than what I paid. Factor in historic inflation rates rlutilising this linkrl and £25 back in 1992 would equate to around £47 today.

rlHere is a more expensive ticket priced at £37 in 1992 which would equate to around £70 todayrl

Loads of tickets for the BIG HIT double header in 2013 were on offer at between £10 and £20 including free RLWC beanie hats in some cases.

Mid season internationals between the northern and southern hemisphere sides are impractical the distances are too large - even the world cup in soccer is segregated at qualifying to cut down on travelling.

If we were able to beat the Aussies consistently then perhaps there would be more interest until that happens the international will be a case of here we go again - Australia beat England/GB.

You could have a mid-season international window and it wouldn't have to be Australia coming here every year for instance, just a period where players are made available for internationals. So for instance Samoa or PNG could play England or Wales or even NZ. At the moment they can't because they won't get their NRL players.

I agree but it's still a negative attitude from Australia that holds a lot of international issues back. And Australia, with the media attention they get in Australia and that region could do more than they are to help the game.

I might be wrong but the club wembley tickets were on General sale and if my memory is right it was pretty full in that section.

Yep. I think William is getting mixed up with the 4 nations game v Australia a year or 2 previously.

Also attendance is just that, number attending on the day, not number of tickets sold or stadium members seats not filled. But hey ho this is william we are talking about.

Not necessarily. Pretty sure I've seen attendances given before now that were based on tickets sold rather than bodies through the gate. Have been at Wembley NFL games announced as a sell-out crowd which have been nothing like, for example.

Yep, for instance I was at Sale v Exeter before Xmas, on a corporate freebie I hasten to add, I move in exalted circles you know, the official attendance was given as just over 5000 much to everyone's amazement as there appeared to be only half that. A Sale employee confirmed they count all season ticket holders and all tickets sold regardless of who turns up. I think it was Sky that had the "actual" attendance of around 1800.

I know Leeds do the same too. Whether that extends to large stadiums like Wembley though I have no idea. Though in this case it's sort of irrelevant as the Club Wembley seats were pretty full.

The club wembley ring was packed to the rafters as it was on general sale, I have 4 debenture CW Gold seats and they did not include that event or the 4 nations previously, they do include the CCF though

and the CCF is less attractive due to date, transport over that date, hotel costs and the silly format now used with no momentum.