All the clubs relegated from Soccer's top division since it became the 'Premier League' were promoted to it (even if that was before it was called the Premier League).



Because if a team got promoted each year and nobody ever got relegated, the league would get too big.

There needs to be a happy medium between P&R under the old system (which did promote an unsustainable boom and bust scenario that did the game no good whatsoever) and the current franchise system which in my opinion is only working for a select few.

The main point seem to ignore (apogies if you have elsewhere) to relates the number of SL clubs chasing a salary cap that they cannot afford without third party funding beit Sky or rich benefactor, and even with it are suffering serious financial trauma.

There are too many clubs who can barely open the front door let alone balance the books when relying upon income via first and secondary spend.

How can that be good for anyone?

There is little point them having a 3/5/10 year plan under the current format because the way they are heading there is a grave danger some of them won't be around (in their current format) in 3/5/10 years time if they continue as they are.

It would be fantastic if every club could aim for the highest common denominator but as things stand there isn't enough money or interest in the game to fund that. We dont want to drop to the lowest common demoninator either.

What's needed is a happy medium whereby an 'average to good' sized club (lets say Cas for arguments sake, it could easily be Wakey, HKR, Salford etc) does not have to spend beyond it's means (as they currently are) trying to hang on to the coat tails of an elite 5 or 6 clubs but can at the very least provide a sustainable business platform to grow from.

You may say the current set up provides that. The number of clubs continually struggling to makes ends meet says otherwise, and its a struggle not created by a short term blip either, it's a worrying trend that was always there under P&R but shows no sign of restraint during the current system either.

Well yes, we have more clubs, its what you would expect, in fact unless you thought that the two promoted clubs would be averaging more than the average SL attendances it was pretty much a guarantee.

We are however seeing year on year on year increases in average since the increase in size of the league, and obviously large increases in the total number of people going to watch games, which goes against your hypothesis somewhat as more people are watching the more the teams play each other.

What? Are you saying that clubs who werent promoted to the premier league were actually promoted to the premier league even though they werent promoted to the premier league. Interesting.

It is only working for a select few, realistically only a few (in the scheme of things) are affected by it.
That’s true, but as you say, it is also the case under P+R, and in my opinion the pressure to spend was greater under P+R.

If we use Cas as an example then yes, they are a ‘decent’ sized club who cannot compete currently, financially, with the top SL clubs, and yes, they may need to ‘overspend’ to keep up. BUT, and it is a big one, where is the logic that cutting their income, cutting their attendances, cutting their visibility etc is going to give them that platform? Yes they can cut their costs, but this whole idea the whole two leagues of ten idealogy is based on an assumption that it would be more profitable for Cas to be playing in a 2nd tier, chasing promotion, and fighting against relegation in the top tier, than it is right now for them, when there is a very good chance that, even though Cas are spending less on players, and winning more games against a lesser opposition, that they also lose more fans, more sponsors, more visibility, more corporate attendees etc etc etc, That is why the idea wont work. Cas are better financially, at the moment, as the little fish in a big pond than they would be as a bigger fish in a small pond.

Apart from splitting the league into 2 leagues of 10, is there any more meat on the bones of this idea???

How much money each league would expect?
Would there be cross divisional games?
Would teams in SL2 have a chance of making the GF?


Apart from a brief mention in the warrington Guardian is there anymore to this.

It's all well and good saying that those in SL2 will be more competitive, but what would stop SL1 pulling the shutters down on them once they are out??

But how many is "a lot of very good players"? Once these players--who are currently only good enough to play for the bottom 4 clubs--have been spread out between 10 teams, how much real difference to the week in week out intensity are they actually going to bring? I'm not doubting that there are some good players, but it stands to reason that by and large they aren't as high quality as those playing for 1-10, otherwise they would already be there.

Regarding the gap between top and bottom, if we're lucky the difference between 1 and 10 would more or less be the same as it is now. If we're unlucky, the top clubs would get their pick of the "best of the bottom", and the gap between 1 and 10 would be as pronounced as the gap between 1 and 14 is now.

For the purpose of this, lets put aside the top 5 or 6 clubs becuase they'll always be the top 5 or 6 and historically always have been and look at those below them.

So...



I'd disagree, there are adds and omits to the arguement but on the whole personally I disagree. The best part of SL this season was the odd game and the last fortnight. After that I found it pretty dull and of low standard which after 30 years watching the game leaves me asking why. Maybe I've just got bored of it!

But, the bottom half of SL are technically trading insolvent whilst the middle tier between SL and grassroots is totally on its backside.

The interest from both supporters and sponsors is next to dead at that level, apart from the GF even Sky can't be bothered showing it anymore. This leaves ambitious clubs with little chance of building a platform and average clubs linking up with bugger SL clubs as a cheap way of making their squad numbers up. Given it's in many instances the foundation to top flight RL, it's foolish to ignore it's predicament.



So happens when the gravy runs out? Not just Cas (apologies Cas fans for using you as an example!), we could list half a dozen others. We're trying to get financial stability in the game, you more than anyone beat the drum about clubs being better managed thus warranting their place in SL. By your own admission here, that's clearly not happening and defeats the whole object of it all.



That's the whole point, inversely, they (and others) are not competing as it is so what's lost? Sometimes what is spent does not equal value for money.

I'm not convinced if they cut their spending by (say) 40% that it would necesarily result in a 40% drop in standards. For example, Championship wages have halved over the last couple of years but the players are still there. After Uncle Des stopped throwing silly money about at Barrow, Steve O'Connor and a few others got together and said this has to stop.

Now we have the likes of Leigh, Fev, Fax keeping their spending at more realistic levels so what we dont have now is an abundance of part time players/Aussies/journeymen earning £30k a year, average salaries are now at less than £10k. The same players are still playing aided and abetted by dual contracts and loans.

Would it not go the same in the mid to lower levels of SL, where very average players dont earn the £40-60k they are now (as quoted by Sean Long at a recent event) but earn more realistic salaries?

It's a bit of tough love granted, but something has to be done. With it, the morbid/joyous interest generated by P&R is there, Sky remain there, competitive derbies still exist, pro rugby still exists, the big clubs are still there, and financial stability has a greater chance of prevailing.



From memory, as well as taking over 10000 to Headingley for the GF, Cas had just as many (if not more) watching them in the Championship (regular crowds of 6, 7000) than they did last season so I'm not convinced on that one. Then again, P&R existed 4.75537109375:10