we have a clear answer to that.

England v France in small stadiums

England 84-4 France at Leigh, attendance 8k
England 48-4 france at Salford, attendance 8k
England 44-6 france at Craven Park, attendance 7k
England 60-6 France at Leigh, attendance 8k

In a game treated like a proper international

England 34-6 france at Wigan, 22k
France 18-32 England Avignon 17k
England 34-12 France Keepmoat, 11k

Not conclusive, if the French want a game in France, then organise it, , a couple of 1,000 more in Doncaster, when was that Wigan game played?

French RL looks in a bigger mess than over here, they look more divided and parocial than us, but to proioritise matches against Scotland,Wales, Ireland than England ( if thats what they did? ) is poor

I doubt we can solve their issues any more than the Aussies could do ours, but if you want to blame the RFL for taking a game to a top quality RL stadium for both fans not turning up and a pathetic French performance , fine your perogative

what use is this game to them? its a warm up game. We arent treating it like its important, why would they? Its a mindset that thinks they should be grateful we have deigned to allow them on the same turf as us.

The french can't organise a game on their own. But if you want to absolve the RFL from the mess THEY organised yesterday because it was held at Leigh go ahead, the results are there for everyone to see.

Can the RFL organise a game on their own? , pointless point, the French can invite/request we play over there

They selected a top qualty stadium in the heartlands, a cheap cost given we have 3 games against a better ranked opponent in the next few weeks, so what do they want, us to use the Kiwis as warm up for them?

Better order Wembly for next year

The Wigan one was the World Cup QF 2013 and the Doncaster one a 4 Nations game of 2009.

Hardly properly comparable to a friendly on the eve of a 3 test series vs the Kiwis (including a trip down to London for game 2)

All Smokey has shown is that a WC QF will sell better than a friendly......shock horror.

The RFL can invite whoever they want. If they want a warm up game against some warm bodies then this is what they will get. If they want a true test then they need to organise one of those instead.

They selected a small stadium for an untelevised warm up game and fans like you are wondering why nobody, including the french cared. Its weird that you are surprised by it. We didnt care about the game and treat it in such a manner, why are we surprised they did the same?

It may come as a surprise to someone as parochial as you, but there is a fair old difference between a small provincial stadium like the LSV and Wembley, with plenty in between.

That thing going wizzing above your head was the point.

Good job you noticed and managed to point out some of those games were low profile poorly attended meaningless games and some were proper competitive games. It took a genius of your intellect to to decipher the subtlety of the titles "england v france in small stadiums" and "in a game treated like a proper international" without your clever interjection nobody would have seen through my fiendish plan to present them as exactly the same.

The game in Avignon was not a 4N or WC game though.

The point is that when the game is organised with some respect and as an event with importance behind it, and not just a friendly for the sake of a little run out, the French put their hands up and the fans show up.

If you schedule a game as a meaningless training run that you can't even get on the radio and bang it in a small stadium (lovely as it is, it's not big enough for a proper international) in a small town, no one will give a toss.

We could stick all of the NZ games in stadia the size of Leigh and I bet they wouldn't sell out. Not because there aren't the fans, but because the perception is it isn't that important so people aren't as inclined to go. We've been playing against NZ in 25k stadia for years and very rarely fill them, if ever; but as soon as we've taken one to an iconic ground with a big push and a huge capacity, people have begun to come for the event. They feel it isn't just a small game.

The international game is run like an afterthought.

In what context, given a 3 game test series against a higher ranked team is to be played from next week, would anybody consider this anything more than a warm up?

Either the French didnt have the players, or they chose not to play them, the 1 st I can accept, the 2 nd I cant, if it is the 2nd and we see their best play next week, I doubt theyll get an invite again

Simple answer is we play them in France, if that is they are capable of organising it?

Nobody did consider it anything more than a warm up. Hence the result and the attendance.

Why are the french expected to provide their best side, to the possible detriment of their performance in the European Championship to provide England with a better warm up? France have some fully fledged international competition coming up, why are they supposed to care about a warm up game?

If the French are incapable of providing credible opposition for England as they proved yesterday ( and as they proved in the last WC and Euro's ) they wont get acorded the respect being suggested on here

Pointless game be it at Leigh Wembley or Whitebank stadium, bring back the Exiles, certainly confirms the correct decision regarding Toulouse

Oh dear Smokey resorting to insults when people pick apart his points.....again shock horror.

Why were the games at Wigan and Doncaster presented as proper internationals? Because they were proper internationals with results important.

Again, and try a mature response instead of your default childish responses....why would you even list friendlies up against Internationals that had something riding on the result?

Truth is you wanted a stick to beat the RFL with so left out the detail of those matches. Simple as that and quite easy to see through.

The french dont play RL to prepare England to play other nations.

They have more important games to play this year than a hastily organised warm up game nobody watched.

What that has to do with Toulouse god only knows

You need to focus on finding the point before worrying your little head about picking them apart.

What? You want to try this one again? Is there something else you are saying here other than the pretty self-evident point that proper internationals are proper internationals?


Lets try and lay this out simply for you.

The point:
The french dont care about being our warm up game, they dont care about friendlies played in small stadiums with a low profile and as such dont send their best players and dont perform to their best. When the games are treated as a proper international then the french put out a better team, the game is closer and the attendances are higher.

Evidence:
A comparison between games which are friendlies played in small stadiums with a low profile and games which are proper internationals which shows not only a higher attendance but a closer result aswell.

Your counterpoint:
Yeah but you failed to mention those proper international games that you called proper internationals were proper internationals with something riding on the result. Stop leaving out details so you can have a stick to beat the RFL with.

Given the French have important games to play, youd expect them to consider yesterdays game as a warm up to those games, if not, why even bother?

It works both ways, but it does give us an insight to how poor French RL currently is, if they want respect, then they need to do a lot more to earn it