The sport is smaller, but that has nowt to do with Licensing and a whole load to do with bad management and clubs spending to stay up rather than grow....the best examples of this would be Widnes who were competitive both on and off the field during licencing, but who have reverted to spending to stay up and sod the rest of it.
As for Union, they are well managed at all levels and still hemorrhage cash at an eye watering rate......but they have adapted to open professionalism and have allowed "nature' to take its course seeing Quins, Northampton and Newcastle all be relegated and have to fend for themselves without tweaking the format...the RFU/IRB are the dog and the club game is the tail and the god wags its tail, whilst in League, the tail wags the dog and the elite few will protect their status no matter what......it's why AFL dwarfs NRL in aussie.....it's why soccer is growing fast over there 10,700 average...only 4k behind the NRL now....36k for a Sydney Derby....more than the Bunnes v the Dogs drew this year......the sport is badly managed across the board and that's why it's smaller in the UK.....nothing to do with Licensing!

How about using Wakefield and Castleford as examples?

For all the talk of how hard the 8’s system makes it for teams to build and plan, the first SL to nearly go down in that system (Wakey in 2015 MPG) they were almost top 4 two years later.

Wakey having a decent coach who can coach well is nothing to do with Licensing either.......and AGAIN.....one or even 3 swallows doesn't make a spring. Wakey are doing well, but look at Widnes and Salford and you'll see standards are dropping which is elevating average sides.

Ah so when teams do well it has nothing to do with the system but when teams do poorly it’s because of it. Salford aren’t exactly looking rosey during licensing anyway so really bad example.

Its sport someone will always be at the bottom. At least promoting teams does not allow those at the bottom to rest easy.

Licencing did not grow the game and the criteria was fudged every time to fit incumbent clubs. Clubs were only removed from the top flight when they folded. Otherwise they just took the money and were happy to be there.

But surely abandoning the pyramid structure was an example of bad management, in other words, it has everything to do with licencing. The current obsession with Toronto is another example of bad management. It'll end in tears just like Celtic Crusaders did. Expansion has to be organic or it won't work.
IMO Licencing is one among many appalling decisions the sport took without reference to the supporters. Summer rugby was another. Union have grown their crowds, from in some cases the apocryphal two men and a dog watching some of the top clubs (not Northampton or Leicester) to substantial, respectable crowds playing in winter, whilst our crowds have been declining. Licencing added to that decline I'm afraid. The game is a mess. Allowing Widnes into SL in the first place is an example of that mess. They had won nothing or proved nothing on the field and yet were allowed automatic access to SL. DR is another stupid decision, and yes my club "benefits" from it. The game needs a thorough housecleaning from top to bottom.

They along with Cas were candidates for the chop not that long since.

There’s a difference between having ‘good players’ and having the amount of top quality players that McDermott had at his disposal. You’re kidding yourself on if don’t think plenty of other coaches could have done what he has. The last few years he’s been exposed with the departures of key players and the poor recruitment that has followed.

I take it you haven’t watched As Good As It Gets then. Leuluai says he lost respect for McDermott for the way Sinfield was treated during the 2015 season. Peacock didn’t have anything good to say. The only person who came across as liking McDermott was JJB. I was shocked watching it, the mood coming from the players (about the 2015 season) was very negative considering they won the treble. Sinfield even mentions how he didn’t enjoy 2015 and kept a diary of events because of the way he was treated. That confirmed it for me, he’s arrogant and stubborn which is how he comes across. A good coach yes, but no better.

PRE LICENSING2003 - 2008...6 seasons at an overall average attendance of 9,669. x 198 games LICENSING 2009 - 2014....6 seasons at an overall average attendance of 9,893. x 198 games 1,959,804 paying fans
POST LICENSING 2015-2017 3 seasons at an overall average attendance of 9,240 x 169 games = 1,561,560 paying fans......

...and the averages when multiplied by the number of games doesn't look good for your "theory" either.....nearly 400,000 fewer paying fans at Superleague games post licensing.....and that's without the sick puppy that was London with their 1k gates......

Leuluai didn’t say he lost respect for McDermott, he said he thought subbing Sinfield on late on in the game was disrespectful. Peacock doesn’t say anything good about him but doesn’t say anything bad (may well have said something good but it didn’t make final cut). How about Sinfield saying he was the best coach he had? Why is he arrogant for dropping a player for a few games (but telling him he’ll still be crucial to us later in the season). If anything in that issue the reaction of Sinfield and others is silly, no player is bigger than the team and he got dropped for 2 games and they made out like it more like 2 months.

It’s funny with last years success. Even the anti McDermott Leeds fans are saying it’s down to still having McGuire and Burrow (as previously with Sinfield and Peacock). Funnily enough most of those fans thought McGuire should’ve gone after an injury hit 2016, shouldn’t be captain anymore and wouldn’t be able to do it in the big games without Sinfield, yet after the fact McDermott was lucky to have him when most of them would’ve gotten rid/stripped him of captaincy if they had their way. As for Burrow he was lucky if he got more than 15/20 mins most weeks, the GF was won by the time he came on. McGuire starred in the playoffs but he probably wouldn’t even make top 5 performers during the regular season that got us to a comfortable 2nd with almost as many points as 2015.

https://twitter.com/leedsrhinos/status/ ... 2091164672

https://twitter.com/leedsrhinos/status/ ... 2091164672

I got email to say Sinfield as Director of Rugby, James Lowes full time first team coach

https://www.therhinos.co.uk/2018/07/06/ ... ds-rhinos/ Heatherington's comments suggest that Sinfield is running the show, with James Lowes putting the cones out.

https://www.therhinos.co.uk/2018/07/06/ ... ds-rhinos/ Heatherington's comments suggest that Sinfield is running the show, with James Lowes putting the cones out.

Money and time well spent.Your succint posts illuminate our uneducated forum.
Henceforth I will take you far more seriously.