FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Top Quality Decision
211 posts in 15 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2244_1299706258.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg



Quote: Horatio Yed "Not an 8 point try, just because you're about to cross the line doesn't mean you'll score, look at Richards first disallowed try for example.

If he'd been punched after grounding it, then 8 point try

The only thing it would have been, at that distance, is a penalty try if Tomkins hadn't grounded it.'"

It is an 8 point try because as EGW and hula89 point out he was in the act of scoring. Plus, you contradict yourself. If it's not an 8 point try because he wasn't certain to score (in your point if view) then it also couldn't be a penalty try if Tomkins hadn't grounded it because in your view he wasn't certain to score, which is a prerequisite for a penalty try.

Should have been an 8 point try and it would be interesting to find out why neither or Ganson gave it as an 8 point try. It's a shame Stuart Cummings Q&A thing isn't still going. Although the amount of bullsh[ii[/it on the Internet has significantly reduced since that stopped.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach20628
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2016Aug 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
44480_1390845286.jpg
It's been fun.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44480.jpg



Quote: Him "It is an 8 point try because as EGW and hula89 point out he was in the act of scoring. Plus, you contradict yourself. If it's not an 8 point try because he wasn't certain to score (in your point if view) then it also couldn't be a penalty try if Tomkins hadn't grounded it because in your view he wasn't certain to score, which is a prerequisite for a penalty try.
'"


How is it a contradiction?

If he hadn't grounded the ball it was only because he'd been fouled, the fouling being the only reason he didn't score meaning penalty try.

If he'd scored and then been knocked out then that is worthy of an extra 2 points.

What is the clarity on act of scoring?

You could say getting the ball on the 50metre mark and being fouled was in the act of scoring, how does the ref know he isn't going to break through 13 defenders and score?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3448
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2021Sep 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
22964_1381135683.jpg
[color=#FF0000:3ohiykr5][b:3ohiykr5]Wigan Warriors - 2017 World Club Champions[/b:3ohiykr5][/color:3ohiykr5]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_22964.jpg



Quote: Horatio Yed "How is it a contradiction?

If he hadn't grounded the ball it was only because he'd been fouled, the fouling being the only reason he didn't score meaning penalty try.

If he'd scored and then been knocked out then that is worthy of an extra 2 points.

What is the clarity on act of scoring?

You could say getting the ball on the 50metre mark and being fouled was in the act of scoring, how does the ref know he isn't going to break through 13 defenders and score?'"


The 'act of scoring' must be physically grounding the ball, at that second.

Theoretically, Rayner could have made contact elsewhere and Sam may have dropped the ball, so for me the contact wasn't in the act of scoring how I understand it.

Given that we've had an 8 point try in the competition, and another was mooted live on BBC, the RFL ought to say precisely what constitutes a foul in the act of scoring.

Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2244_1299706258.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg



Quote: Horatio Yed "How is it a contradiction?

If he hadn't grounded the ball it was only because he'd been fouled, the fouling being the only reason he didn't score meaning penalty try.

If he'd scored and then been knocked out then that is worthy of an extra 2 points.

What is the clarity on act of scoring?

You could say getting the ball on the 50metre mark and being fouled was in the act of scoring, how does the ref know he isn't going to break through 13 defenders and score?'"

It's a contradiction because if he's not certain to score in the context of an 8 point try then he can't have been certain to score if the foul hadn't taken place and so a penalty try couldn't be given.
The certainty of scoring a try has to be the same in each scenario otherwise it's a contradiction.

Actually it's not worthy of another 2 points, the rule is specific in stating that any foul AFTER the try is scored foes not qualify as an 8 point try. It is not as specific on what constitutes the act of "touching the ball down" and can quite easily be interpreted as including the act of putting the ball over the line, which Tomkins was doing since he was reaching out to the line at the point of contact.

Because in that situation the referee can allow advantage to see whether he scores, the attackers then benefit from that advantage. In this case (and presumably why 8 point tries were brought in) there is no chance for advantage to be given that close to the line. The attackers have not gained any advantage since they would have scored anyway.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9680
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Oct 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
46003_1489786199.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_46003.png



Quote: Guerrier "The 'act of scoring' must be physically grounding the ball, at that second.

Theoretically, Rayner could have made contact elsewhere and Sam may have dropped the ball, so for me the contact wasn't in the act of scoring how I understand it.'"


EXACTLY

the try hadn't been scored at the time of the 'tackle'.

its really not that hard to understand... if raynors swinging arm had hit its intended target (rat boys arm/body/the ball) he may well have knocked on and everyone would be saying how well he did to prevent a certain try.

as it happened he missed by a mile a knocked him out.

thats rugby.

Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2244_1299706258.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg



Quote: morleys_deckchair "EXACTLY

the try hadn't been scored at the time of the 'tackle'.

its really not that hard to understand... if raynors swinging arm had hit its intended target (rat boys arm/body/the ball) he may well have knocked on and everyone would be saying how well he did to prevent a certain try.

as it happened he missed by a mile a knocked him out.

thats rugby.'"

Except that is not what the rule says. It specifically rules out actions AFTER the try is scored. The issue is what constitutes the act of "touching the ball down".

And he should be penalised for getting a risky tactic so badly wrong.

RankPostsTeam
International Star7579
JoinedServiceReputation
May 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lqXKnCsaQM

Is this any different to what occured on Sunday? Both were in the act of touching down imo.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lqXKnCsaQM

Is this any different to what occured on Sunday? Both were in the act of touching down imo.


RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9680
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Oct 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
46003_1489786199.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_46003.png



Quote: Him "Except that is not what the rule says. It specifically rules out actions AFTER the try is scored. The issue is what constitutes the act of "touching the ball down".

And he should be penalised for getting a risky tactic so badly wrong.'"


he wasn't touching the ball down though was he?

he hadn't even reached out to put the ball down at the time of impact.... he was just falling towards the try line... the ball was more than a few feet away from the line.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1923No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2019Jan 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
44920_1327005775.png
[quote="Harrigan":1th0f7ap]Wigan are the most structured team I have ever seen in this country.[/quote:1th0f7ap] [quote="NickyKiss":1th0f7ap]As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel![/quote:1th0f7ap] [url=http://twitter.com/#!/theegw:1th0f7ap]@TheEGW[/url:1th0f7ap] [url=https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsnX1esHN2wkEC1FxcO2TCg:1th0f7ap]YouTube Channel[/url:1th0f7ap]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44920.png



Quote: Horatio Yed "Not an 8 point try, just because you're about to cross the line doesn't mean you'll score, look at Richards first disallowed try for example.

If he'd been punched after grounding it, then 8 point try

The only thing it would have been, at that distance, is a penalty try if Tomkins hadn't grounded it.'"

Why should it be a penalty if he'd scored and been punched but not if he'd been punched and scored? It doesn't make sense. In both circumstances he has scored, and in both circumstances he has been punched. Surely the RFL have designed the laws to award a) a penalty try in cases where a try is denied by foul play and b) a penalty kick in cases where a player is fouled but scores/has scored anyway. As for your first point, we know Tomkins was in the act of scoring not simply because he was crossing the line but because [ihe did in fact go on to[/i score. If a player scores it stands to reason that at some point before that he was in the act of scoring.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1923No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2019Jan 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
44920_1327005775.png
[quote="Harrigan":1th0f7ap]Wigan are the most structured team I have ever seen in this country.[/quote:1th0f7ap] [quote="NickyKiss":1th0f7ap]As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel![/quote:1th0f7ap] [url=http://twitter.com/#!/theegw:1th0f7ap]@TheEGW[/url:1th0f7ap] [url=https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsnX1esHN2wkEC1FxcO2TCg:1th0f7ap]YouTube Channel[/url:1th0f7ap]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44920.png



Quote: morleys_deckchair "EXACTLY

the try hadn't been scored at the time of the 'tackle'.'"

It doesn't have to have been scored - it has to be in the process of being scored. For something to be in the process of happening it must, by definition, not have completely happened yet. Scoring is not the same as scored; touching down not the same as touched down. For a player to be scoring means, categorically, that they have not scored yet; if a try is being scored it has not been scored; if a ball is being touched down it has not been touched down. The rules would explicitly state that a penalty must only be awarded "after" a try if that was the intention.

Quote: morleys_deckchair "its really not that hard to understand... '"

Apparently it is.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9680
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Oct 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
46003_1489786199.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_46003.png



it wasn't being scored though... that's why is WASNT given.

post to the whistle lad.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach20628
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2016Aug 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
44480_1390845286.jpg
It's been fun.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44480.jpg



Now i am confused.

Is there some way of looking at the official rules (link).

Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2244_1299706258.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg



Quote: morleys_deckchair "it wasn't being scored though... that's why is WASNT given.

post to the whistle lad.'"

Wasn't it? I'd suggest that at the point of contact Tomkins arms are reaching forward. The only reason for that would be to score a try. Hence why I believe Tomkins was fouled in the act of scoring.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9680
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Oct 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
46003_1489786199.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_46003.png



Quote: Horatio Yed "Now i am confused.

Is there some way of looking at the official rules (link).'"


just read the wigan board..... that should clear up any doubts you have.

i think raynor is being hung tomorrow outside primark.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9680
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Oct 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
46003_1489786199.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_46003.png



Quote: Him "Wasn't it? I'd suggest that at the point of contact Tomkins arms are reaching forward. The only reason for that would be to score a try. Hence why I believe Tomkins was fouled in the act of scoring.'"


i dont think the rules give a flying f*ck what you believe.

211 posts in 15 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
211 posts in 15 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


3.26416015625:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
bonaire
3855
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
48s
Rumours and signings v9
That Mon
28877
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40580
2m
Shopping list for 2025
Faithful One
5517
2m
removing posts
Dannyboywt1
3
2m
Call for funds
Hudd-Shay
188
3m
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
Scarlet Pimp
7
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63070
4m
Transfer Talk V5
batleyrhino
461
6m
2025 Proposed Rule Changes
YosemiteSam
18
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
Scarlet Pimp
7
TODAY
Offiah on Salary Cap
karetaker
6
TODAY
removing posts
Dannyboywt1
3
TODAY
Season pass roll call
Cuddleclub
16
TODAY
Positivity Pact
Sebasteeno
3
TODAY
Jack Coventry
Wanderer
1
TODAY
A Year to Remember
Zig
1
TODAY
2025 Annual
JamieRobinso
1
TODAY
2025 KIT Thread
Sadfish
1
TODAY
NRL Kick Off Rules
stpatricks
7
TODAY
Garry Schofield
PopTart
6
TODAY
Out of contract 2025
Wires71
8
TODAY
Gary Schofield
Jake the Peg
9
TODAY
Joe Phillips
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Andy Ellis
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Manoa Wacokecoke
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jeylan Hodgson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Mackenzie Harman
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Dent
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Callum Rutland
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Harry Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jack Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Garry Schofield
karetaker
12
TODAY
Lennon Bursell
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Brett Ferres
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Reece Dean
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Alex Holdstock
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Thomas Minns
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Josh Guzdek
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jamie Shaul
Wanderer
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
901
England's Women Demolish The W..
741
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1006
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
798
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1085
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1599
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1851
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2112
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1690
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1931
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2397
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1835
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1925
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
2103
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2245
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.64M 1,037 80,15414,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
There are currently no matches to display.
Matches on TV
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
bonaire
3855
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
48s
Rumours and signings v9
That Mon
28877
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40580
2m
Shopping list for 2025
Faithful One
5517
2m
removing posts
Dannyboywt1
3
2m
Call for funds
Hudd-Shay
188
3m
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
Scarlet Pimp
7
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63070
4m
Transfer Talk V5
batleyrhino
461
6m
2025 Proposed Rule Changes
YosemiteSam
18
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
Scarlet Pimp
7
TODAY
Offiah on Salary Cap
karetaker
6
TODAY
removing posts
Dannyboywt1
3
TODAY
Season pass roll call
Cuddleclub
16
TODAY
Positivity Pact
Sebasteeno
3
TODAY
Jack Coventry
Wanderer
1
TODAY
A Year to Remember
Zig
1
TODAY
2025 Annual
JamieRobinso
1
TODAY
2025 KIT Thread
Sadfish
1
TODAY
NRL Kick Off Rules
stpatricks
7
TODAY
Garry Schofield
PopTart
6
TODAY
Out of contract 2025
Wires71
8
TODAY
Gary Schofield
Jake the Peg
9
TODAY
Joe Phillips
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Andy Ellis
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Manoa Wacokecoke
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jeylan Hodgson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Mackenzie Harman
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Dent
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Callum Rutland
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Harry Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jack Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Garry Schofield
karetaker
12
TODAY
Lennon Bursell
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Brett Ferres
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Reece Dean
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Alex Holdstock
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Thomas Minns
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Josh Guzdek
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jamie Shaul
Wanderer
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
901
England's Women Demolish The W..
741
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1006
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
798
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1085
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1599
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1851
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2112
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1690
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1931
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2397
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1835
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1925
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
2103
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2245


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!