FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Hardaker not clear of trouble yet |
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实事求是!: |
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| Quote: knockersbumpMKII "The RFL are showing (for a change) due diligance in making sure they are absolutely as far as they can be what the facts are.
In something as serious as this (given Hardakers very recent misdemeanor) to rely on one piece of evidence alone could leave them on shaky ground when it comes down to it.
As MS mentions, it's easy enough for referees not to remember verbatim exactly what was said, he has to concentrate every single minute of the game on differing types of situations. It isn't that his report isn't accurate as an absolute..that would be impossible, because any point in time isn't always recalled as vivedly as another so to say X time/game the ref remembered everything without a shadow of doubt can't be compared to another occasion when he may have heard/seen something said but wasn't 100% sure.
In which case given how serious it [icould[/i be for Hardaker should he be proven guilty then they rightly have to show as far as possible that he is guilty, if there's a doubt then he isn't. That isn't a witch hunt, that's doing the right thing for everyone concerned!
It is their duty to uphold both the laws of the sport AND in this case actually what might be another criminal offence.
But of course whino fans & their club seemingly aren't interested in following up on something that could put the sport in a massively negative light if they just gloss over it as they are suggesting the RFL do by their stance
Jesus how pathetic, bigoted and narrowminded are some people, including the Leeds club.
if even after a lip reader has looked at whatever footage they have and can't be sure then the RFL would be left with little choice to say they've investigated and it isn't 100% clear so a warning for foul language.
If he is guilty and at this moment in time that is still a big if, then yes, it isn't good for the player, BUT it makes rugby league one of the very few sports to crack down on this sort of behaviour..that we will not as a family sport tolerate this kind of thing both from the players/clubs POV nor from fans.
THAT should be applauded instead of being labelled as witch hunting or are you whino fans & your nasty little club seriously suggesting the RFL and everyone else should sweep these types of things under the carpet and be ignored? Really..are you, because pretty much everything said so far including the ridiculous 'trail by social media' tag suggests that's exactly what should happen? Idiots
Disgraceful post.
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//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: knockersbumpMKII "The RFL are showing (for a change) due diligance in making sure they are absolutely as far as they can be what the facts are.
In something as serious as this (given Hardakers very recent misdemeanor) to rely on one piece of evidence alone could leave them on shaky ground when it comes down to it.
As MS mentions, it's easy enough for referees not to remember verbatim exactly what was said, he has to concentrate every single minute of the game on differing types of situations. It isn't that his report isn't accurate as an absolute..that would be impossible, because any point in time isn't always recalled as vivedly as another so to say X time/game the ref remembered everything without a shadow of doubt can't be compared to another occasion when he may have heard/seen something said but wasn't 100% sure.
In which case given how serious it [icould[/i be for Hardaker should he be proven guilty then they rightly have to show as far as possible that he is guilty, if there's a doubt then he isn't. That isn't a witch hunt, that's doing the right thing for everyone concerned!
It is their duty to uphold both the laws of the sport AND in this case actually what might be another criminal offence.
But of course whino fans & their club seemingly aren't interested in following up on something that could put the sport in a massively negative light if they just gloss over it as they are suggesting the RFL do by their stance
Jesus how pathetic, bigoted and narrowminded are some people, including the Leeds club.
if even after a lip reader has looked at whatever footage they have and can't be sure then the RFL would be left with little choice to say they've investigated and it isn't 100% clear so a warning for foul language.
If he is guilty and at this moment in time that is still a big if, then yes, it isn't good for the player, BUT it makes rugby league one of the very few sports to crack down on this sort of behaviour..that we will not as a family sport tolerate this kind of thing both from the players/clubs POV nor from fans.
THAT should be applauded instead of being labelled as witch hunting or are you whino fans & your nasty little club seriously suggesting the RFL and everyone else should sweep these types of things under the carpet and be ignored? Really..are you, because pretty much everything said so far including the ridiculous 'trail by social media' tag suggests that's exactly what should happen? Idiots
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18686.jpg In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!:18686.jpg |
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| Quote: Ferdy "Yes I have never heard that chant on live telly before other than at Leeds. It's never happened anywhere else before.'"
It sounded like Knowsley Road five or six years ago, but it still sounds crass, as does the monotonous drone of Yorkshire, Yorkshire.
Quote: Ferdy "You must've never been to an RL or Football game in your life.'"
I've been to more RL games than you've had hot dinners, however, you are correct about football, but maybe those crossover supporters get a little confused.
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41913_1351384834.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_41913.jpg |
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Or not, this is a myth of long standing. It originated from tests where the subjects were just making vowel sounds and mouth shapes, not speaking or having a conversation.
The 30% stat is very frequently cited, but there is no actual authority for it.
Most skilled lip readers would expect to achieve close to 100% accuracy of a conversation recorded in ideal conditions that they had the luxury of being able to replay on video. This is because they recognise speech not from any given individual mouth shape or movement, or individual phonemes, but are practised at associating sequences of such shapes and movements, into common words, phrases etc. And given a collection of such clues they are experienced in making sentences out of them, much like you can fill in a crossword clue much easier the more letters you know.
I am assuming normal conversation of course. If the discussion was between two nuclear physicists on formulas for obscure chemical reactions or such like the percentage would be much lower, as the subject of the dialogue is important.'"
Surely skills that good would be tested and verified?
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| It is also the facial muscles that change, Pr1ck has a differing set of facial muscles being used compared to the word poof.
the former also induces a more open mouth at the sides and certainly more so said with vehemence. Compare that to the word 'poof' in a Northern dialect which has a 'flattened' (if you will though not strictly an accurate description) vowel in it, it shouldn't be too difficult for an expert to distinguish the two
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| Quote: The Devil's Advocate "I've been to more RL games than you've had hot dinners'"
Doubt it
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "i would question any claim of 100% accuracy if only for the fact that whenever lipreading is included in a story, almost universally they take 2 or 3 different experts and the give 2 or 3 slightly different answers'"
Me too, but the general point is that as some benchmark of accuracy, the 30% myth is just that, and the actual accuracy is under reasonable conditions likely to be very much higher.
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: Lord God Jose Mourinho "Surely skills that good would be tested and verified?'"
Seemingly not, so go for it, you could be the first to publish the definitive study.
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| Suddenly it seems, some here are experts in linguistics.
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| It does? I'm not sure where or how, seeing as the thread is fsck all to do with linguistics. Maybe you could clarify, and also ID who the linguistics experts are as I haven't seen anyone claiming to be?
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41913_1351384834.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_41913.jpg |
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Me too, but the general point is that as some benchmark of accuracy, the 30% myth is just that, and the actual accuracy is under reasonable conditions likely to be very much higher.'"
You were touting most skilled lip readers as achieving almost 100%. Where are you getting that from?
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "It does? I'm not sure where or how, seeing as the thread is fsck all to do with linguistics. Maybe you could clarify, and also ID who the linguistics experts are as I haven't seen anyone claiming to be?'"
Now you're being very defensive at that accusation. So I'd ID you for starters.
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: Lord God Jose Mourinho "You were touting most skilled lip readers as achieving almost 100%. Where are you getting that from?'"
No I wasn't. I said most skilled lip readers would expect to achieve close to 100% accuracy of a conversation recorded in ideal conditions ... that they had the luxury of being able to replay on video... and assuming normal conversation not eg some specialist subject.
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41913_1351384834.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_41913.jpg |
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "No I wasn't. I said most skilled lip readers would expect to achieve close to 100% accuracy of a conversation recorded in ideal conditions ... that they had the luxury of being able to replay on video... and assuming normal conversation not eg some specialist subject.'"
Read my words. Where are you getting that information from?
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47035_1386433761.gif We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47035.gif |
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| See what I mean, they complain at the length of the thread then feel the need to post a rebuttal to everyone who gives their 2p worth.
Obviously picking up on the 100% figure was a given, a bit like picking up on the Nazi post earlier. Give em and inch and they will play on it to the point of distraction.
Suddenly pronouncing everyone as expert lip readers, well to a point we are all expert lip readers. I personal have 35 years of watching peoples lips move up and down and listening to the words that accompany them.
I would never say I am a professional lip reader, as I do not have the qualifications or get paid for doing so. but no doubt any pro lip readers will be secret Leeds haters.
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