FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Specifically, how will the playoffs work in 2015?
115 posts in 9 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2244_1299706258.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg



Quote: SmokeyTA "1. That would assume that these clubs either had or could transgress these rules. If for instance you could create a squad of 25 players 0 of which were home trained, but you could register an infinite amount of players under 21 in said squad. Those rules would mean, like Chelsea, you could have only 5 home trained players and meet that requirement couldn't you. Because the infinite amount of under 21 players you could register would suffice the 8. '"

So these rules are illegal and easily challenged in law, but rather than do that professional football clubs worth billions would rather limit their squad to u21's and risk not winning? Come on Smokey, don't be daft.

Quote: SmokeyTA "2. It was city rather than Utd, and im suggesting they didn't need to. '"

Man Utd had to as well. So both Manchester clubs would rather weaken their squad than fight this easily challenged, illegal rule?

Quote: SmokeyTA "3. They aren't because you can't have free movement of workers then apply an extra criteria to workers of different nationalities. '"

Yes they are. You either don't understand the non-fed trained rule or you can't admit you were wrong on this point. Nationality, like the Kolpak ruling, is irrelevant. Nationality is not mentioned whatsoever in the non-fed trained rules.

Quote: SmokeyTA "4. I am saying they havent been transgressed 5 times, Because they have been changed 5 times because the clubs wanting more twice, because of Stanley Gene, because of one of the Henderson brothers, and because of Dobson/Mason. Every time the RFL have been called upon to actually apply the rules they have simply changed them. '"

Every time? Are you saying there are only 5 incidences of clubs wanting to sign an additional non-fed trained player in 6 seasons? In what way were the rules changed in these 5 cases? And what effect has it had?
You're grasping now Smokey. For some reason you've decided the rule doesn't work, despite all evidence to the contrary, and now won't let it go despite your argument shifting drastically from it being illegal and unenforceable, to the RFL simply choose not to enforce it, to a changing of the rules.

Quote: SmokeyTA "5. Prior to Marc Bosman you could say the same, prior to Maros Kolpak you could say the same.'"

Both of which are to do with nationality, so as to conform with the free movement and right to work principles for EU nationals as set out by the EU.
The non-fed trained rule (and the football homegrown rules) do not mention nationality. As proved by Owen Hargreaves, a British national but classed as overseas in Man Utd's squad, and proved by plenty of RL players including Mitch Achurch and Gareth Widdop.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5214No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Sep 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
27476.gif
:CROWN: I am the hash browns of rlfans :CROWN::27476.gif



Quote: SmokeyTA "
3. They aren't because you can't have free movement of workers then apply an extra criteria to workers of different nationalities.
'"


Not on where they were born. You can on where they were trained (a lawyer needs to pass the bar in every country/ state they wish to practice in, regardless of where they initially passed it). Ergo, no they're not.

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner20966No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2015Feb 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
6679_1399761959.png
[quote="dally messenger":1gysl9ow]was watching an nfl doco. on one of their teams and they used the term bomb to describe those long high passes from quaterback to running back and i think gibson took that idea, realized you cant throw the ball forward in RL and adapted it to a "bomb" kick we have[/quote:1gysl9ow] [quote="eels fan":1gysl9ow]You poor poor obsessed fat ex vichyballin potato thieving stoaway.[/quote:1gysl9ow]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6679.png



Quote: bewareshadows "
"Let us sell Tim Smith to Salford"
"No they are up to quota"
"Ok we will be likely to go bust then"
"erm ok you can sell him"

Or

"We want to buy Tim Smith from Wakefield"
"No you are up to quota"
"Ok then Wakey will go bust and I'll reconsider my investment in Salford"
"Erm ok then we'll make a dispensation and then change the rules "'"

icon_eek.gif
It's almost as if you were in the room......in both scenarios icon_lol.gif

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach22777
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2020Feb 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Him "1.So these rules are illegal and easily challenged in law, but rather than do that professional football clubs worth billions would rather limit their squad to u21's and risk not winning? Come on Smokey, don't be daft.

2.Man Utd had to as well. So both Manchester clubs would rather weaken their squad than fight this easily challenged, illegal rule?

3.Yes they are. You either don't understand the non-fed trained rule or you can't admit you were wrong on this point. Nationality, like the Kolpak ruling, is irrelevant. Nationality is not mentioned whatsoever in the non-fed trained rules.

4.Every time? Are you saying there are only 5 incidences of clubs wanting to sign an additional non-fed trained player in 6 seasons? In what way were the rules changed in these 5 cases? And what effect has it had?
You're grasping now Smokey. For some reason you've decided the rule doesn't work, despite all evidence to the contrary, and now won't let it go despite your argument shifting drastically from it being illegal and unenforceable, to the RFL simply choose not to enforce it, to a changing of the rules.

5.Both of which are to do with nationality, so as to conform with the free movement and right to work principles for EU nationals as set out by the EU.
The non-fed trained rule (and the football homegrown rules) do not mention nationality. As proved by Owen Hargreaves, a British national but classed as overseas in Man Utd's squad, and proved by plenty of RL players including Mitch Achurch and Gareth Widdop.'"

1.No, you misunderstand, they wouldn't need to rely on youngsters. Say you needed 8 homegrown players. You have a squad of 25 but also unlimited u21s. So you could have a squad of 25 players, 0 of which are homegrown, and an unlimited amount of u21 players all of which are homegrown.

2.in 2010? Hargreaves didn't play for man Utd again because of injury.

3. But nationality is not irrelevant to where you are trained. You cannot have a free movement agreement with another country and then insist that anybody who wishes to work here had come at this age and spent this much time here before that age. That isn't free movement in any way shape or form. You can't stick a restriction that makes it infinitely more difficult for these people and pretend it is free movement. The people who write these treaties aren't idiots. The persons right to seek work would supersede the RFL's laws.

4. 5 times n 6 years is a fair old amount. And in the absence of evidence to the contrary I'm not going to assume there have been examples of the RFL actually enforcing the quota that we just don't know about.

5.yet we have a governing. Body that hasn't actually ever enforced the rules, changed them whenever asked, and a much bigger governing body publicly stating that quotas just aren't enforceable

RankPostsTeam
International Star578No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 201212 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2019Jan 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Interesting article....
"Poland to limit foreign players to three per side"

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -side.html
Interesting article....
"Poland to limit foreign players to three per side"

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -side.html


RankPostsTeam
Player Coach22777
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2020Feb 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Mr Churchill "Interesting article....
"Poland to limit foreign players to three per side"

Not really. Everyone knows we could do the same. Non EU quotas have never been the problem

Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2244_1299706258.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg



Quote: SmokeyTA "1.No, you misunderstand, they wouldn't need to rely on youngsters. Say you needed 8 homegrown players. You have a squad of 25 but also unlimited u21s. So you could have a squad of 25 players, 0 of which are homegrown, and an unlimited amount of u21 players all of which are homegrown. '"

No it's actually you who misunderstands.
The rule is a maximum of 17 players out of a 25 man squad who are not homegrown. The u21's are irrelevant, you can play as many of them as you want regardless of their status. But the 25 man squad (ie those over the age of 21) can only contain a max of 17 non homegrown players. If a club were to have 0 homegrown players in its squad then it would only name a 17 man squad. The explanation on the Premier League website is quite clear.

[i"To ensure that Premier League Clubs continue to produce top home-grown talent, the 20 Clubs introduced a Home Grown Player rule from the start of the 2010/11 campaign. Clubs cannot name more than 17 non home grown players aged over 21. For example some clubs will have a squad list of 23 because they may have 17 over 21 non home grown players. "
[/i

Quote: SmokeyTA "2.in 2010? Hargreaves didn't play for man Utd again because of injury. '"

And because he counted as overseas.
Just take a look at the squads announced for this football season.
Why have teams like Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, Man City and Spurs all announced a squad of fewer than 25 players? Because they don't have the homegrown players so have to leave a gap.
Now of course, they could run with a weaker squad, or they could challenge this illegal rule couldn't they? If it's so easily knocked down why hasn't it been by one of these mega rich football clubs?

Quote: SmokeyTA "3. But nationality is not irrelevant to where you are trained. You cannot have a free movement agreement with another country and then insist that anybody who wishes to work here had come at this age and spent this much time here before that age. That isn't free movement in any way shape or form. You can't stick a restriction that makes it infinitely more difficult for these people and pretend it is free movement. The people who write these treaties aren't idiots. The persons right to seek work would supersede the RFL's laws. '"

Yes it is Smokey. You can keep arguing that black is white for ever if you like. It won't alter the fact that nationality is irrelevant to these rules. As proved by Gareth Widdop, Jack Reed and Mitch Achurch, amongst others.

Quote: SmokeyTA "4. 5 times n 6 years is a fair old amount. And in the absence of evidence to the contrary I'm not going to assume there have been examples of the RFL actually enforcing the quota that we just don't know about. '"

Which 5 times are these? And how were the rules changed?
So you mean you're going to ignore evidence of the rule working and only accept evidence of it (in your opinion) not working?

Quote: SmokeyTA "5.yet we have a governing. Body that hasn't actually ever enforced the rules, changed them whenever asked, and a much bigger governing body publicly stating that quotas just aren't enforceable'"

Simply repeating what you put before without any evidence isn't actually an argument or a response you know.

You can't do it can you? You've backed yourself into a corner now because you'd decided the non-fed trained rules didn't work without looking into it properly, and now you can't admit you were wrong so you're just going to continue to ignore all the evidence from other sports and our own.

Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
2244_1299706258.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2244.jpg



Quote: SmokeyTA "Not really. Everyone knows we could do the same. Non EU quotas have never been the problem'"

In football they've never been a problem because the problem of foreign players is from within the EU.
In RL they are definitely a problem, hence the non-fed trained rule.

RankPostsTeam
International Star578No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 201212 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2019Jan 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Him "In football they've never been a problem because the problem of foreign players is from within the EU.
In RL they are definitely a problem, hence the non-fed trained rule.'"


Should we worry anyway about the game being overrun with kolpak players - the two PNG players signed by HKR couldn't
get work permits/visas. I thought Smokey at said eu citizens inc kolpaks have a right to come here to get work?!?

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner33944No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200421 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2016Mar 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
9005.jpg
kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Quote: Mr Churchill "Should we worry anyway about the game being overrun with kolpak players - the two PNG players signed by HKR couldn't
get work permits/visas. I thought Smokey at said eu citizens inc kolpaks have a right to come here to get work?!?'"


My point exactly earlier in the thread , until I got bored with smokeys constant bollox, the harder you make it for clubs to sign your average Aussie, or you make the available market of quality players smaller , then the less will end up coming, simple as really

115 posts in 9 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
115 posts in 9 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


4.462890625:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
33m
Recruitment rumours and links
rubber ducki
3512
42m
Transfer Talk V5
Trebor1
424
46m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2545
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Jake the Peg
3700
Recent
Memorable Games
Jake the Peg
12
Recent
Film game
karetaker
5152
Recent
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40518
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Film game
karetaker
5152
2m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2545
2m
Ground Improvements
Slugger McBa
123
2m
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
2m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Jake the Peg
3700
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63012
3m
Rumours thread
Trojan Horse
2505
4m
Will Brough gone
vastman
2
7m
Squad 2025
the fax in a
24
8m
Is Eamon OCarroll off Yes New Coach Thread
tigertot
133
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Will Brough gone
vastman
2
TODAY
The Brick Stadium ownership update
Azul
8
TODAY
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
TODAY
Squad contract dates
Trojan Horse
12
TODAY
Paladin Sports
orangeman
5
TODAY
Magic Weekend
Wollo-Wollo-
2
TODAY
War of the Roses
matt_wire
16
TODAY
Dual Reg
PopTart
2
TODAY
Vagana
Scarlet Pimp
10
TODAY
2025 Kit
Wigan Bull
6
TODAY
2025 merchandise
18th Man
12
TODAY
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
7
TODAY
Its all gone a bit quiet
BigTime
17
TODAY
England Beat Samoa To Take Test Series
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
McMeekan
Trojan Horse
13
TODAY
Englands Women Demolish The Welsh
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Lee Kershaw
Big lads mat
9
TODAY
2025 Shirt
The Whiffy K
11
TODAY
Home Shirt 2025
MattyB
1
TODAY
Uele contract extension
Khlav Kalash
5
TODAY
Squad for Match 2 v Samoa
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 2
Boss Hog
11
TODAY
Sky tv deals
karetaker
7
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 1
Fantastic Mr
29
TODAY
New Kit
karetaker
62
TODAY
Memorable Games
Jake the Peg
12
TODAY
Hybrid rugby
moto748
11
TODAY
Pre Season - 2025
giddyupoldfe
119
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
616
England's Women Demolish The W..
555
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
858
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
666
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
954
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1446
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1683
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
1950
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1531
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1800
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2164
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1728
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1810
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
1946
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2125
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.64M 1,084 80,15414,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
There are currently no matches to display.
Matches on TV
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024 3 England M34-16Samoa M
WINT2024 2 ENGLAND W82-0WALES W
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
33m
Recruitment rumours and links
rubber ducki
3512
42m
Transfer Talk V5
Trebor1
424
46m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2545
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Jake the Peg
3700
Recent
Memorable Games
Jake the Peg
12
Recent
Film game
karetaker
5152
Recent
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
Recent
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40518
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Film game
karetaker
5152
2m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
Trebor1
2545
2m
Ground Improvements
Slugger McBa
123
2m
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
2m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Jake the Peg
3700
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63012
3m
Rumours thread
Trojan Horse
2505
4m
Will Brough gone
vastman
2
7m
Squad 2025
the fax in a
24
8m
Is Eamon OCarroll off Yes New Coach Thread
tigertot
133
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Will Brough gone
vastman
2
TODAY
The Brick Stadium ownership update
Azul
8
TODAY
Rhinos Ladies
MjM
8
TODAY
Squad contract dates
Trojan Horse
12
TODAY
Paladin Sports
orangeman
5
TODAY
Magic Weekend
Wollo-Wollo-
2
TODAY
War of the Roses
matt_wire
16
TODAY
Dual Reg
PopTart
2
TODAY
Vagana
Scarlet Pimp
10
TODAY
2025 Kit
Wigan Bull
6
TODAY
2025 merchandise
18th Man
12
TODAY
NBR Does Smithers have a hangover
Smithers99
7
TODAY
Its all gone a bit quiet
BigTime
17
TODAY
England Beat Samoa To Take Test Series
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
McMeekan
Trojan Horse
13
TODAY
Englands Women Demolish The Welsh
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Lee Kershaw
Big lads mat
9
TODAY
2025 Shirt
The Whiffy K
11
TODAY
Home Shirt 2025
MattyB
1
TODAY
Uele contract extension
Khlav Kalash
5
TODAY
Squad for Match 2 v Samoa
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 2
Boss Hog
11
TODAY
Sky tv deals
karetaker
7
TODAY
2024/25 out of season mind occupier 1
Fantastic Mr
29
TODAY
New Kit
karetaker
62
TODAY
Memorable Games
Jake the Peg
12
TODAY
Hybrid rugby
moto748
11
TODAY
Pre Season - 2025
giddyupoldfe
119
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
616
England's Women Demolish The W..
555
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
858
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
666
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
954
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1446
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1683
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
1950
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1531
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1800
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2164
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1728
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1810
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
1946
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2125


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!