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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: Derwent "I totally agree but its been made clear by people like McManus that the big clubs in SL would like Bradford to remain in SL for purely commercial reasons. Unfortunately in this day and age the commercial aspect will override the moral aspect, which is why I think they will be allowed to retain SL status.

The RFL, on the other hand, have to be seen to do [isomething[/i and if SL status is retained then the only real punishment open to them is a downgrading of licence.'"


Fair enough, but it is too obvious to maintain the pretence that the framework of licensing has meaning or value.

Quote: Derwent "They are at risk now, as they should be.

The conspiracy theory, which you seem to be falling for, have it all backwards.

It isnt a case of the RFL giving Bradford extra-help, so they get 10k, they have an acceptable if not great stadium, they have a great youth development history, high visibility, big fanbase etc etc, Bradford are getting the help they are getting not to get those things because they have those things.

The only reason people are cynical about Bradford being demoted is because of the quality of competitors to take their place.

If there was a club capable of having what Bradford have now, in the lower leagues, Bradford would be demoted. What saves them is that most clubs in the lower leagues are, right now, totally unsuitable for SL, in the same way Bradford would be unsuitable for the lower leagues. Not better, not worse just different.'"


Fine - give New Bradford a franchise (as distinct from a licence). It'll be a whiffy retcon, but if there isn't a better solution, then so be it, so long as they don't maintain the pretence of due process and an attitude of 'carry on as we were'. I've got not a problem with Bradford, I don't want to 'punish' them. But talk of 'demotion' for a newco of this type is preposterous under the system you're trying to prop up. They didn't just go into admin, they failed to emerge from it and just started over (it seems from the limited info available).

The point of 'punishing' them in these circumstances is twofoldcan't[/i have both.

As for the lack of suitable replacements, that is a structural issue that is unlikely change until the structures do. If necessary let's admit that and choose the least unpalatable course of action.

I'm not arguing particularly for or against any system. I'm not even arguing for integrity - just honesty when the truth is obvious, and against an illogical and doomed effort from those in charge to have their cake and eat it.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Mild Rover "Fair enough, but it is too obvious to maintain the pretence that the framework of licensing has meaning or value.

Fine - give New Bradford a franchise (as distinct from a licence). It'll be a whiffy retcon, but if there isn't a better solution, then so be it, so long as they don't maintain the pretence of due process and an attitude of 'carry on as we were'. I've got not a problem with Bradford, I don't want to 'punish' them. But talk of 'demotion' for a newco of this type is preposterous under the system you're trying to prop up. They didn't just go into admin, they failed to emerge from it and just started over (it seems from the limited info available).'"
Surely the 'due process' is the fairly simple and obvious process of seeing if firstly Bradford are capable of being an SL club in their new form, and secondly to see 'if there is a better solution'. We all (it seems) assume Bradford are, and that there isnt. But what is the harm in the RFL doing a bit more research in to it? If the cynicism is removed and we dont start from a point where the world is bad and the RFL corrupt they seem to be doing the obviously sensible thing.

Quote: Mild Rover "The point of 'punishing' them in these circumstances is twofoldOr, conversely it could dissuade a 'white knight' from saving a club at all and the creditors get nothing, the reputation of the sport still suffers and we lose a club. Punishing a 'white knight' for being a white knight seems an odd thing to do, especially when being a white knight is a good thing
Quote: Mild Rover "2. To leave licensing with some credibility. I'm not saying it is worth it, but that's the choice (it seems). A Newco Bulls in SL or a credible licensing system - you [ican't[/i have both. '"
If franchising is to have the best clubs in SL, and Bradford are one of the best clubs, the having Bradford in SL supports the credibility of franchising.

Quote: Mild Rover "As for the lack of suitable replacements, that is a structural issue that is unlikely change until the structures do. If necessary let's admit that and choose the least unpalatable course of action.'"
I think we do admit it.

Quote: Mild Rover "I'm not arguing particularly for or against any system. I'm not even arguing for integrity - just honesty when the truth is obvious, and against an illogical and doomed effort from those in charge to have their cake and eat it.'"
If the RFL are being honest, and the Bulls arent guaranteed an SL place, and they are still being assessed then how could they prove that to you?

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Bulls want it both ways...no punishments, cos that was the old club, that was.

But still want to claim the history and records.

Is it a new, debt free club or is it the iconic old Bulls that we all know and love?

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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: SmokeyTA "Surely the 'due process' is the fairly simple and obvious process of seeing if firstly Bradford are capable of being an SL club in their new form, and secondly to see 'if there is a better solution'. We all (it seems) assume Bradford are, and that there isnt. But what is the harm in the RFL doing a bit more research in to it? If the cynicism is removed and we dont start from a point where the world is bad and the RFL corrupt they seem to be doing the obviously sensible thing.'"


Which is fine, if you have a system predicated on 'sensible', just doing what is best. But licensing is (supposedly) about a consistent application of a detailed and comprehensive framework and doing what is right within the context of it. An ad hoc, make it up as you go along approach renders the principles of licensing obsolete.

Quote: SmokeyTA "If franchising is to have the best clubs in SL, and Bradford are one of the best clubs, the having Bradford in SL supports the credibility of franchising.
'"


Of [ifranchising[/i, yes. That is subtley but significantly different from what was advertised though, so this would represent a change, whether they admit it or not.

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They are many arguements for and against the current farce that is unfolding yet I would hold your breath whilst waiting for an answer from the RFL. They will bottle it like they always do hiding behind some smoke screen ( that appears their only consistency)
I sure no real rugby fan from any club will want to see any club fold but Bradford have to pay the penalty for the mis mangement of previous board and subsequent going into administration.
The RFL should take a leaf out of the Scottish Footbal Assoc in the way they dealt with Rangers. They showed that there is no one club bigger than the game relegating the mighty Rangers to the lower regions on the
Scottish league, akin the dropping the bulls into the conferece.
So come on RFL show some b4lls and make a decision. icon_razz.gifRAY:

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Quote: SmokeyTA "If franchising is to have the best clubs in SL, and Bradford are one of the best clubs, the having Bradford in SL supports the credibility of franchising.'"


I'm sure the creditors that receive their 10% are over the moon with that.

Actually, it says that if Bradford ARE one of the best clubs in SL then SL itself is sheeeeiiite. But it doesn't because you're wrong.

Bradford WERE one of the best clubs, until they spent money they didn't have. Keep spinning your bullsheet though, it's an entertaining read.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: Mild Rover "Which is fine, if you have a system predicated on 'sensible', just doing what is best. But licensing is (supposedly) about a consistent application of a detailed and comprehensive framework and doing what is right within the context of it. An ad hoc, make it up as you go along approach renders the principles of licensing obsolete'"
from what you are saying it seems that you see some process within the franchise framework which isnt being adhered to, i dont know what process they arent following. And I would think it a stretch to argue that (from the RFL's point of view) licensing/franchising isnt a system predicated on doing what is sensible and what is 'best'.

Its almost as if people are criticising the RFL for there not been a rule stating outright, no equivocation, administration equals demotion, then criticising them for not following this rule which doesnt exist, then criticising them for taking an ad hoc approach, even though they accept that there will always be a necessary element of an ad hoc approach.

Quote: Mild Rover "Of [ifranchising[/i, yes. That is subtley but significantly different from what was advertised though, so this would represent a change, whether they admit it or not.'"
It is a change, but there would always, and will always be subtle changes to whatever system is implemented.

As i said, the three year time period was a mistake, it should be gotten rid of. It is unnecessary and arbitrary.
I also disagree with the 'competition' element of the way it has been advertised. It again was unnecessary. The franchising process shouldnt be a 'competition' between the clubs. It should be a pathway for each and every club. I think that if Leigh, or Halifax, or whoever were capable of being a Bradford, a Leeds, a saints, a wigan etc, then they would be in SL, we would expand SL to accommodate them. For all the arguments of there being too many clubs, i would argue we dont have enough, we need more, but they need to be up to standard.

That is the attitude the game needs to have, you are in SL on your own merits, because you add to SL, because you add more value to SL than you take out. Not because you are better than clubs x,y and z.

If we were to promote Halifax, Leigh, Featherstone, or whoever else it should be because of what they bring to SL, not as a default for Bradfords failure.

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//www.pngnrlbid.com [quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35] [quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]:



Quote: littlerich "I'm sure the creditors that receive their 10% are over the moon with that.

Actually, it says that if Bradford ARE one of the best clubs in SL then SL itself is sheeeeiiite. But it doesn't because you're wrong.

Bradford WERE one of the best clubs, until they spent money they didn't have. Keep spinning your bullsheet though, it's an entertaining read.'"

Im sure whether Bradford are in SL or the Championship it doesnt make a blind bit of difference to the creditors.

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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: SmokeyTA "from what you are saying it seems that you see some process within the franchise framework which isnt being adhered to, i dont know what process they arent following. And I would think it a stretch to argue that (from the RFL's point of view) licensing/franchising isnt a system predicated on doing what is sensible and what is 'best'.

Its almost as if people are criticising the RFL for there not been a rule stating outright, no equivocation, administration equals demotion, then criticising them for not following this rule which doesnt exist, then criticising them for taking an ad hoc approach, even though they accept that there will always be a necessary element of an ad hoc approach.'"


I'm not saying administration equals demotion in licensing. If the club had [iemerged[/i from administration then it would be possible to say everything was above board. A newco is a step too far, IMO. If even under these circumstances a phoenix club can gain a licence, then the bar is set so low... well there isn't a bar. A club can fail utterly, despite all the advantages of its SL status, and start fresh with a clean slate - so long as the other members of the club decide they are wanted. All the independent scrutiny, and measurement against criteria are meaningless. Perhaps they always were - but now we know.

Quote: SmokeyTA "It is a change, but there would always, and will always be subtle changes to whatever system is implemented.'"


I don't see it as subtle, but perhaps I wasn't cynical enough from the start. 4.2646484375:5
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