We've won jack s[ihit[/i for 30 years. An odd win in 1988, 1990 and so on and so forth ....... to what - a whitewash in 2008? Same difference to me. Don't kid yourself that 20 years ago we were slightly better than we are today by comparison. It all amounts to the same thing - we're still way behind. We were 20 year ago and we still are today. By what degree? Does it matter? We're still crap.

Whats this lark about same 2 every year..
You'll have to tell me what saints won this year.......

It's worth remembering in this debate that the north is the birthplace of the co-operative movement. That means that you help each other in a spirit of mutual aid - a coming together, as it were.

Contrast that with the pursuit of individual self interest. That means that you are on your own, single-handed - at heart, a banker.

How have Leeds won despite the restraints of the Salary Cap? Lets look at the following....

Lee Smith, Ryan Hall, Danny Maguire. Rob Burrow, Matt Diskin, Jamie Jomes-Buchanan, Luke Burgess, Kevin Sinfield, Ian Kirk, Carl Ablett, Kallum Watkins, Simon Worrell... etc.

Where did these guys come from? How much did they pay for them in transfer fees, bidding wars? It's a lesson for all clubs who want a successful team over a number of years.

What relevance are transfer fees?

Is the lesson to offer your players a choice - trophies or money?

What a great advertisement for our game that is.

You're also forgetting that Leeds won whilst having a squad that was under the salary cap, due to the work permit problems experienced with Greg Eastwood. Leeds didn't draft in a replacement for him, even though they had the cap space to do so.

Compare with the Wigan side who overspent on the salary cap to the tune of £222,314 in 2007 and were still sh[ii[/it.

but this has nothing to do with the fact Brent Webb earns a liveable wage

which seems a good example of the strangely inverse relationship we as a sport have with success

erm.......................

a cap on spending on certain players? a cap on the type of player you can bring in? a more prescriptive set of rules regarding squad make up, a cap which rewards clubs for doing what we want them to do?

And? Leeds' top players will be earning top player money. Their main players will still be amongst the best paid in Super League.

The difference is how you keep the rest of the squad together. The Leeds bench played a massive part in last night's victory and yet their salary demands will be considerably less. If those players were motivated more by their fiscal achievements, the result of yesterday's game would have been very different, irrespective of what Brent Webb or Danny Buderus are or aren't being paid.

As mentioned, Luke Burgess will probably have a smaller pay slip than Nick Scruton this year but I can imagine that he would have been the happier of the two at 8pm last night.

regardless of speculative posturing on the quality of the GB side, what is FACT is that there are a huuuuuge amount more overseas players playing in this country since the advent of the cap, and as such a lot less british players, which common sense will tell you affects the squad we can put out

and again, this has nothing to do with how much Brent Webb earns,

Luke Burgess pay packet should be decided on Luke Burgess value to Leeds, not Nick Scrutons or Danny Buderus.

It may very well be the case that for £5k extra Nick Scruton would still be playing for Leeds, it maybe GH would have been happy to pay it to him, he just couldnt because of Salary Cap restraints. How has this helped anyone? the answer, it hasnt really

What it means is that a fantastic youth set-up means that you bring first-team ready players through on a small wage. They become first team regulars and you upgrade their contract from the original and so on and so on...

If you pay a transfer fee, like Wigan did for Fielden for example, or pay top whack to lure a player to your club, like Sean Long to Hull, then you have tied up a huge wedge of your cap and are crossing your fingers for a return on that investment. You are also chopping and changing and losing continuity.