Plus he may play outside King next year, King will bust tackles for fun and if he passes to Penny in open space I'll be very confident that he won't be caught.

Neither Royle nor White have the natural attacking attributes of Penny. I don't mean pace. I mean balance, timing and a good body swerve.

That said, the above isn't worth much if he's a colander in defence. The days of teams being able to "carry" a defensive liability (or - the 80s) are long gone. Over the last five years we've seen clubs increasingly pressurise defensively weak players with an array of kicks, plays and running angles.

Let's see what Penny's like when he's got Willie Talau and Francis Meli steaming into him whilst he's looking to take a Sean Long bomb.

If he passes that test (and various others) we may well have a very good prospect on our hands.

Gardner was no great shakes in defence, it has taken him a while to develop that side of his game. As you mentioned earlier, it is how the team defends as a unit, if a centre provides cover as per his job he should be able to develop his one-on-one defence.

Threads like this do tickle me. One of the most exciting prospects I have witnessed for a good while, yet people want to seize the opportunity to knock before he has been given the opportunity to prove himself at all.

He still isn't. It's the reason I wouldn't be too bothered if we got rid.

You got a good view from that sofa, mate?

Ade Gardner over the past two years has been one of Super League's Most Improved players.

He does have a long way to go admittedly, but he has the potential to become an excellent winger.

BTW, I'm still trying to work out how calling for caution can be interpreted as putting a downer on a player.

Surely a bigger downer would be to build a player's confidence up to unfeasible heights and then watch him self-destruct when he can't live up to insane expectations.

One mistake...? (Although admittedly, I am still yet to see the second half.)

Come back to me when you have.

That will be a long, long time!

Seriously though, from what I have seen (Probably about as much as you!) Gardner is having a very good season and is one of the form wingers in SL.

All these people saying "hes got pace and thats it"...

no $hit sherlock, do you want a cookie for being so clever? Hes only been playing the game 5 minutes. What he does have is something that cant be taught. Raw pace, raw skills and an eye for the line.

Id have him at saints in a flash

Oh dear.

He plays on the opposite side to Talau and Meli.

Correct.

Penny does look like he has got more about him than a lot of other young players who have emerged, he is fast and fearless and has a natural ability to beat people - so the raw talent is there.

Whether or not he goes on to make it depends on a number of factors, eg his own attitude, whether he has weaknesses which will get exploited when other teams start studying video footage of him. He may go on to make it, he may not, but to talk about him as a player in the Offiah mould is crazy because Offiah was a one off. I remember a 17 year old Chev Walker coming into the Leeds team and Ray French saying he was reminiscent of a young Mal Meninga.

Exciting prospect, hence the 8 pages of replies.

Raw - Yes
Finished article - No

Don't be obsessed with the ' is he better than................' he can't do................

Just pleased he plays for Warrington.