Well in that case we can take it as absolute gospel.

As for him signing for money. Well, I'm sure there were other factors in his decision, I'm not suggesting there weren't, but the cash would have been the main one. Of course it was. If Widnes made him the highest paid player in Superleague, he'd be there now - regardless of what "ambition" Hull's crackpot chairman might show.

Seemed to work this way with Kevin Brown.......................

That was more likely the 4 year deal and Brown wanting to be back in the North West to be fair. I would be very surprised if Kevin Brown is the highest paid player in the league.

No doubt highest paid player at Widnes, though, and on more than he got at Giants.

If that's true then it partly explains why there isnt more movement of players from the top clubs. The bottom clubs have to pay premium wages for average players.

It's only speculation put together from

(1) Widnes declaring their dire need of a creative pivot
(2) Brown leaving a club near the top of SL for one near the bottom of SL, and unlikely to make enough progress in his 4 year contract to swap status with Giants
(3) Widnes have no real star names to date so probably no top salaries being paid

I also agree that Brown has some talent, but is not a top half back by any means

Consider the last season of the three players aboveIf Owen Farrell is the future of English RU success then good luck.He is not fit to lace the boots of such great RU stand offs as David Watkins, Phil Bennett, Jonathan Davies, Chris Carter, Carlos Rogers or even Sharp.

He is from the long line of nonetities who have graced British RU with their kick first, run never approach like O Gara Jones,Wilkinson and the very forgettable Scottish excuses for stand offs.

He dosn t make a break or a mesmerising side step to set his threequarters in motion with mental strength. He needs physical ability to do that and all he can do is kick. He is run averse. His first instinct is to heave the ball downfield. His astute passing, which you praise but I have never seen, is practically useless if he never shapes to run and the defence can just key on those to whom he passes.

Don t give me that age and experience guff either. Alex Murphy and Roger Mollward were playing against and beating the Aussies when they were teenagers. Farrell is playing the kind of earth shattering stand off brilliance expected of a 35 year old just selected to manage things because there is no one better.

You might be right in saying Farrell might make a loose forward.Thats what Sinfield does for leeds. He might be listed as stand off but he plays as a link forward. The person playing the traditional stand off role at Leeds is Mcguire, you know, devastating place, making breaks, setting up chances for his outside backs on the end of the breaks, you know, things Farrell cannot do. '"

Farrell is highly regarded in RU circles for his coaching ability. Lancaster may not have lifted Leeds off the foot of the premiership, but he had to work with a team promoted from the Championship, which has consistently struggled in the Premiership. Compare Leeds RU's players with those of teams like Leicester and Saracens.

As for Lancaster's competition, he won the job over Nick Mallett, the former South Africa Springboks coach who won a record 17 tests in a row. Fellow former Springbok coach Jake White (World Cup winner in 2007) expressed interest. England could also have gone for world class coaches like NZer Vern Cotter (took French club Clermont to 4 consecutive finals, winning the 4th) or Australian Michael Cheika (won a Celtic League and European Cup title with irish province Leinster).

Lancaster and Farrell coached their side well enough to beat the All Blacks last year, which hasn't been done since August last year.



Farrell would not get into the All Black or Wallaby sides. However, nor would any of the other NH playmakers or Springboks for that matter. Furthermore, which England RL playmakers would get into the Kangaroos? None. It is immaterial, as Farrell would only need contend for a place in the England RU or RL teams, and would compete well for a place.

FWIW, depending on what figure you use, the break even attendance needed at most SL clubs is 10,000 a game.
Very rough maths are:
SKY 1.3 MILL
10K ave @25 notes each (tickets and residuals) 3.25 mill
Sponsorship, corporates advertising etc...half a millio

5 Million turn over and you should be allowed spend 20% of anything over that OVER THE CAP.

Live, Audited accounts system. No directors loans etc....this has to be viable BUSINESS revenue.....cash only from real sponsors (no club connections) and the fans.....that's real self sufficiency.

Clubs averaging over 10k a week will have an unfair advantage to start with, but by christ, you'd see a different kind of investor buying into the so called "smaller clubs", because for all the talk of the recession and times being hard, once you get fans used to coming to games, they will keep coming back.

Rough estimate id that Ian Lenagan has added 3k a match to the pie average over 5 years....something like 20% increase in attendances and about 15% in turn over.....smart businessmen are what's needed, not sugar daddy's

Why is income from fans any more stable than income from a rich owner/director? Fan bases fluctuate depending on results and economics of the area. There are no guarantees income from fans will remain the same each year.

If you don't link it to tangibles like fan revenue, youmay as well just doaway with the cap,as rich owners will simply buy trophies......as I said, Viable Business plans, not projections and the like.

On Farrell being well regarded - so is Mick Ford, Neil Kelly etc they hardly starred in RL and if they could get a job in RL they would be back in a shot. Noble is another one - no one in RL wants to give him a job but he can get work in RU.

England have never had a foreign coach so Lancaster was not really competing with Mallet as you well know. You mentioned Leeds struggling the point of a good coach is to get the best out of the players - can you really say that about Lancaster's time at Leeds?

The point about Farrell was would he be any good in RL - the answer to that is no - he speed of thought is too slow - in RL he would be much closer to the line his decision making would have to quicken considerably also how would he defend against big centres two/three times in a set!!

Greater spread - if one owner goes he takes it all - it is unlikely you whole crowd would go on mass. Most clubs will have fans who have been going considerably longer than any of the owners have owned the club.

True but you lose 2000 fans and your losses become just as great as most owners (London aside) are putting in each year, and it's not unheard of to have avg attendance fluctuations of 2000 a season depending on performance.

gutterfax's scenario also doesn't take into account expense. One club could have 4mill income and be more profitable than a club with 5 mill income depending on how much they are spending on ground hire, coaches, directors scouting trips to Australia etc.