FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Two Tier Super League A Step Closer ?? |
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| Quote: Dreamer "Funding would be from existing sky funding:
At the moment 14 clubs get £1.2 million each
10 SL1 clubs would still get £1.2 mil each
10 SL2 clubs would get the rest
P.S. to a previous poster. We have no such thing as "a full-time league" or a "part-time league". Clubs just offer the contracts they think they can afford.
A Club operating a system of a core of full-time players with others on half-time or part-time is quite viable and sustainable if that's what they want. In some ways preferable; it can be counter-productive having too many players getting bored with too much time on their hands.
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| Just another thought, would this proposed SL2 be similar to that of the proposed Super Treize in France?
That would be a huge influx of players training full time compared to now. That would increase quality in the pyramid that would hopefully filter in to other parts.
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| Quote: Wellsy13 "The idea is to make the 'league' more competitive. More games against more better teams will improve the quality of the players. Too many games against poor teams is a boring spectacle and doesn't prepare you for the intensity needed to play against tougher opposition.
You don't improve quality by making MORE opportunity. That's how you improve quantity. More people fighting for less places improves quality. You HAVE to step up or by left behind.
There needs to be a balance between quantity and quality. The current structure requires too many to be top quality, which leaves us with players competing that just aren't good enough (or good enough yet as they're forced to step up too early). The proposed system (if it is two full time leagues) allows for a streamlining of quality and still a platform for quantity in the full time game.
Because no-one has access to the accounts.
I've offered a simplistic explanation based on the current finances a few pages down.'"
Quality post,quite a lot of it harsh but true
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| Quote: RLBandit "That's exactly right. It's often said that the premiership is boring, but in fact there are very few clubs who have nothing to play for in the structure. The premier league is actually a very good example of a structure that works well given the gap between the top and bottom sides. ( You can argue of course about whether it should be made more equal with salary caps, etc. but *if* you're forced to accept the idea of big clubs and small clubs, then they've got it working well).
The big thing of course is getting into Europe at one end and relegation at the other. Mid-table is actually quite a small place and it's usually very late into the season before any club gets into a 'nothing-to-play-for' situation.
As I've said before I'd like to see something akin to the Champions League ( but sadly I can't see the Aussies being motivated to take part ) to help with the top end, making the top 4 a great target.
( as an aside, at the very least, let's make the WCC game for the top placed regular season side - that would slightly rebalance the league/playoff importance. Only slightly, mind.)'"
As you have brought the premier league, and how it gives clubs 'something to play for' a total of 45 clubs have played in the premier league, 12 have never been relegated, 33 have, at some point been relegated from the premier league.
Of the 33 clubs who have been in the PL, and relegated from it, of those 11 went in to administration one or more times within a few years of relegation, 6 had severe financial difficulties, and 1 doesn’t exist anymore.
But hey, at least they ‘had something to play for’.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "
Of the 33 clubs who have been in the PL, and relegated from it, of those 11 went in to administration one or more times within a few years of relegation, 6 had severe financial difficulties, and 1 doesn’t exist anymore.
'"
In hindsight, perhaps the directors of such clubs wished they had spent their substantial 'parachute' payments more wisely.
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| Quote: Wellsy13 "The idea is to make the 'league' more competitive. More games against more better teams will improve the quality of the players. Too many games against poor teams is a boring spectacle and doesn't prepare you for the intensity needed to play against tougher opposition.
You don't improve quality by making MORE opportunity. That's how you improve quantity. More people fighting for less places improves quality. You HAVE to step up or by left behind.
There needs to be a balance between quantity and quality. The current structure requires too many to be top quality, which leaves us with players competing that just aren't good enough (or good enough yet as they're forced to step up too early). The proposed system (if it is two full time leagues) allows for a streamlining of quality and still a platform for quantity in the full time game.
Because no-one has access to the accounts.
I've offered a simplistic explanation based on the current finances a few pages down.'"
There is a balance needed, there would always be a balance needed. But what you are proposing is to create a bottleneck, that isn’t needed.
We have only just expanded the league, this drop in quality was always going to happen. It has to happen when we expand the league. The clubs joining cannot have an SL standard production line when they aren’t in SL, and even if they did those youngsters need experience to get up to pace. The question isn’t is there enough players for 14 teams right now, but can there be in the near future. If this country cannot produce 260 SL level players then the problem isn’t the size of the league, it’s the youth development structures and player pathways we have. 260 isnt a lot.
Cutting the size of the leagues is treating a symptom and not the cause,
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| Quote: Wooden Stand "In hindsight, perhaps the directors of such clubs wished they had spent their substantial 'parachute' payments more wisely.'"
Perhaps they wish they hadn’t been relegated at all.
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| Quote: Wooden Stand "Dreamer wrote
I'm not sure why you have quoted my post from the Keighley site on here?
I have not mentioned "full" or "part time" leagues only "full" or "part time" players, no different to how some clubs operate now.
I'm not sure what your point is?
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "
Cutting the size of the leagues is treating a symptom and not the cause
'"
Look, having a closed shop of the same old teams in Super League is killing rugby league in this country from the top down. People get bored and fed up, visting same old away grounds time after time etc. The number of young athletes who want to go into rugby league is decreasing year-on-year; unless they are one of the lucky few who are invited in by a top Super League club, they are disenchanted.
The proposal for a Super League 1 and Super League 2 with automatic one-up, one-down promotion and relegation is a proposal to reinvigorate the game.
It's a good job, with your views, you are not a director of a rugby league club (or, if you are, that's part of our problem).
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Perhaps they wish they hadn’t been relegated at all.'"
No. Wrong again. If there had been no automatic promotion and relegation between the leagues, they wouldn't have have had the chance to play in the top division in the first place.
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| Quote: Wooden Stand "Look, having a closed shop of the same old teams in Super League is killing rugby league in this country from the top down. People get bored and fed up, visting same old away grounds time after time etc. '" Ok, so where is your evidence for this? Using either the 4 years of franchising we have had, or from the multitude of other sports around the world which don’t have promotion and relegation please provide us with the evidence that led you to this conclusion. Quote: Wooden Stand "The number of young athletes who want to go into rugby league is decreasing year-on-year; unless they are one of the lucky few who are invited in by a top Super League club, they are disenchanted.'" Is it? more people are playing than before, im not sure why we would assume that less of them would want a career in the game?
Quote: Wooden Stand "The proposal for a Super League 1 and Super League 2 with automatic one-up, one-down promotion and relegation is a proposal to reinvigorate the game.'" No it isnt, its a proposal to take some money from some clubs in SL and give it to some clubs in the championship.
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| Quote: Dreamer "I'm not sure why you have quoted my post from the Keighley site on here?
I have not mentioned "full" or "part time" leagues only "full" or "part time" players, no different to how some clubs operate now.
I'm not sure what your point is?'"
Sorry about that; won't do it again.
I was simply wishing to agree with you 100%.
It was another poster who referred to "full" or "part time" leagues.
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| Quote: Wooden Stand "No. Wrong again. If there had been no automatic promotion and relegation between the leagues, they wouldn't have have had the chance to play in the top division in the first place.'"
Why do you assume that? Some of the clubs in those figures were never promoted to the PL, they were in it at its creation.
And why do you assume that removing automatic relegation means there could be no structure for promotion?
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Ok, so where is your evidence for this?.'"
Since automatic promotion and relegation between the leagues was abolished by the RFL, the average crowds at clubs in the professional (i.e. non communuty) game have gone down.
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| Quote: Wooden Stand "Sorry about that; won't do it again.
I was simply wishing to agree with you 100%.
It was another poster who referred to "full" or "part time" leagues.'"
Quite alright
It's just that when you pose questions under a quoted post from someone, it looks like you are talking to them.
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