I am of the option that the game needs a genuine re think and long term strategy, it's not all doom n gloom but the game is not porogressing and is stagnating and in danger of really going back wards.
Do we need another year zero, and have a ten year plan, sticking to it and really driving the game forward.

We need a flag ship completion with the best teams with the biggest or potentially biggest fan bases, the best stadiums, the best junior development. The super league should be franchise only, 5 year minimum franchises but if you don't cut it your out end of. There has to be another French team (Toulouse) we must rebuild the London franchise or start another from scratch, with a view to being back in super league within 5 years.

We should start with 12 teams and a straight top 5 playoffs and grand final. Looking to increase to 16 teams over time once championship teams are up to scratch on and off the field providing they can sustain their income and fan base. (Super league should be inclusive not exclusive)

There must be some sort of reserve under 23 competition (plus 3 overage players 5 if uk trained players)

Challenge cup back to random draw played every 3rd or fourth week right through to the final. (Final should be moved back around 4 weeks)
Must be at least 2 international games a season, England v France use this as a trial game against France and limit the number of capped players to give France a chance untill they can compete against a full England side.

International Rl full overall bring back Gb for tri nations and tours and encourage full/part kangaroo tours with 3-4 non test games. International Rl needs a thread all its own.

But I belive my proposals for super league are sound but open for realistic sensible debate. I don't think I am re inventing the wheel here and probably most people have the same idea, but interested to know others opinions on the above.

I've always said if we want to compete with the NRL we need to increase the competition. Going from 14 to 12 was a bad move in my book and suggestions from going from 12 to 10 are just as bad. IMO, the more teams in the top league, the more opportunities for players to play top level rugby.

Agree, same with the reserves, just not sure there are more than 10 English clubs strong enough yet hence start with 12 (two French) and look to add 2 then two more in a reasonable time scale.

Agree, same with the reserves, just not sure there are more than 10 English clubs strong enough yet hence start with 12 (two French) and look to add 2 then two more in a reasonable time scale.

All great ideas. But before we start any 10 year plan, we need a governing body capable of choosing the right 10 year plan and delivering upon it. MarwanK says a lot of nonsense at times, but the one thing he's got right is his contempt for the RFL. It's incompetence has driven the sport backwards over recent seasons at a truly alarming rate. The international game is dead, WCC is being cut back as we're not competitive enough to make it worthwhile for the NRL sides and the standards in SL are just plummeting year on year. The promotion and relegation idea isn't going to work, it's encouraging short termism again and is likely to bankrupt any Championship sides who try to get up. It goes right through to the grass roots as well, so little investment in anything going on. My lad plays Under 12s and you are meant to have RFL referees now. He's had one all season with every other game ending in chaos as one of the team coaches is refereeing the game.

You tickle me your lot you want stability then want change you say the games stagnating but for the first time in a generation you have different teams at the top how about the every game matters is actually bringing the change you want but you don't like what's happening to your own favourite at the moment but you want to go back to Leeds Wigan and saints go on why this is the fantasy island thread let's throw Bradford back in as well so it's back to the great days of super league were these 4 battled it out year after zzzz year zzzz after year

We have not even got a sensible system for teams to progress up to Super League level. I am not against the play off system that we have now but it just looks like we are rearranging the deckchairs. Since the middle eights system started a lot of people have come out of the woodwork to support a franchise system just when, as fans, we had pretty much killed it off.
The franchise system brought stability but little sense of development and now promotion and relegation is still pretty much out of reach. The only way to make sure that teams could be promoted would be to rig the system in favour of a championship team and then guarantee them some kind of protection. I assume that the American system of buying and selling franchises would not catch on here but at least we would be able to relax the salary cap. I am pretty sure that a couple of French teams would love the idea of leaving the insanity of the French elite competition. What about finding a Kerry Packer to have a rematch against Sky. We might get a bit more for the rights.

Ive always thought the same, I wanted it to stay at 14 teams. They could still have had promotion and relegation.

The SL should have 14 teams, given we apparently want to expand the game. This would allow for automatic P &R - there could (eg) be one auto promotion spot and playoffs for the second similar to what we have now, but as in Year 1, the increase would be achieved by just promoting 2 Championship clubs, no SL club could complain the next year about jeopardy, as unless they finished last i.e. 14th they end up in the same playoffs as now - and if they finished last, it would mean they finished behind the 2 newly promoted clubs anyway so there could be no valid complaint.

I think that would do wonders for the Championship too, the clubs have spent heavily in improving to mount genuine challenges for the playoffs - even if the actual MPG is hopelessly slewed against them in the current format, but if one team was bound to go up each year, this would reignite the enthusiasm which has faded amongst the Championship clubs when they see how slanted the theoretical chance is against them.

Some may say this will give you "yoyo" clubs - maybe -but it ain't so easy in the Championship - ask my own club, Bradford - and any relegated team would have to do it on merit.

The time for some system of guaranteed P&R is now ripe.

I think the Superleague chairmen need to get off there backsides and run the competition themselves with a major overhaul of marketing, sponsors, media presence etc. and let the RFL run things at grass root to championship levels. The Doctor is right in principal that the game has gone backwards and that the RFL are not fit for purpose, the problem is that in the medium term we are tied in with SKY who in my opinion have got the sport rights on the cheap.

One of the drawbacks at the moment though is that we can't put the game in the shop window to up profile it, the standard is pretty poor this season and needs full strength teams playing with a fair amount of intensity at the back end of the season. I.m not sure if its a good idea going to 14 teams as we don't have enough quality players to run 12 teams, we also don't have any world class overseas players here any more.

We don't have stability to bring the game to ground zero, so I think we will probably carry on tinkering and a risk strategy might go on the back burner until we are offered a Superleague Mk 2 from an outside source.

Just to add to the debate, there are the clubs that were "relegated" from the second tier into Championship 1, who are dying on their backsides and they should clearly be plating in the Championship.
The third tier is a pretty poor standard, with the exception of the top 5/6 clubs and they should be playing in a "better" league.
Unfortunately, the "new" clubs are not up to speed yet and perhaps their needs to be a rethink on just ho to help them progress and become more competitive.

We need to look back at Super League Year Zero (aka 1995) where RL international crowds were decent and RU had yet to come to terms with professionalism. The influx of TV money to RL should have set the platform for us to become the dominant code, yet opportunities were squandered, and really the game doesn't seem any better off than it was all those years ago.

It was never (and probably will never) be the dominant code due to the RU home nations plus, it's International program.
Also, Union is part of the Establishment and even IF we could get to the stage where we had more to offer, we would still be coming second in this country.

Having said that, as a full time pro sport, we should be ahead of Union in many other areas but, due to the gulf in revenue coming into the respective sport's, League will always be trying to play catch up and getting "mocked" by the media as it keeps on with it's innovative ideas.