Today's game was won and lost in the halves. Johnson and Foran were both better than Smith and Widdop. The packs and threequarters more or less cancelled each other out. Last week, the game was won by the video ref, but on the field, the England pack was superior, the threequarters were able to hold their own because the Aussie pack wasn't getting a roll on, but the half-back battle again went to the Australians.

I'm not bashing Smith and Widdop, because it's not like we have lots of other options screaming at us. However, while the Aussies and Kiwis field mercurial, fast, elusive halves with good distribution and excellent boots, England field solid distributors with reasonable kicking games. Look around Super League and we see the same thing again and again : the creative halfbacks are Australian or Kiwi. The "safe" halves are English. Who were the last English halfbacks to play like the Aussie halves do ? Sean Long and Leon Pryce in their pomp ? Bobby Goulding ? Andy Gregory ? Sean Edwards ?

We're producing forwards who are some of the best in the world. We're starting to produce threequarters and fullbacks who can hold their own at international level. But where are the halves, and how do we produce some for the future ?

A 2010 version of Danny McGuire would be terrific in this England team. Clubs also have a tendency to move young English halves out of the halves rather than develop their weaknesses. Tomkins and Lomax are the most recent examples. Once thing that doesn't get mentioned too much is the impact of the loss of Kyle Eastmond to English RL, he'd be a revelation in this England team.

Think it's a number of things.

One of them I think coaches (this includes scouts, youth coaches and SL coaches) aren't giving young half backs a chance as supposedly too small, not big enough physically for SL etc.

Also think it is hard for coaches to bring a young half back through as it is all or nothing. You can bring a prop through, give him 15 mins and break him in. With a half back they'll probably be playing 80mins and they have massive responsibility on them of organising the team, kicking game, planning moves etc coaches don't trust the young players with the responsibility.

The decision to scrap U21's will further hinder this. Half backs are generally small. So they don't fill out until later on. So once they reach 19 they have to either be duel reg (but not a lot of championship clubs will want their main pivot a young inexperienced 19 year old. ) So they may not be playing any rugby.

We have a young half back called Adam Brook who's just been given full time contract. He's be playing exceptionally well in the u19's and is now full time. Looks a great prospect. Problem is now, he's unlikely to go on duel reg as most clubs don't want anything to do with it now. Also we're In championship so we're unlikely to duel reg to teams in same league, so he's not going to be playing any rugby, at the most crucial time of his development!!!!

No one right now is better than Johnson. I don't think Foran was any better than Widdup today.

It does seem to be something to do with the youth set-ups. I ref a fair number of youth games (was at the Broncos' U16s trial a couple of weeks ago), and I see plenty of fast, elusive, confident lads who know how to step and when to lay off a pass - not necessarily small either. The kids are out there. But somehow, they always seem to disappear in their teens, whereas identikit 5'10" solid second-rows seem to be being produced from moulds in pro clubs' back offices.

On the Kyle Eastmond thing, I wonder whether this is an area where the RFL could step in with some salary cap inventiveness. For example, in teaching, when you have a subject with a shortage of applicants (like Physics), the government provides a large Golden Hello, and this is often supplemented by larger pay packets in schools. Could the RFL say, for example, that we have a shortage of half-backs, so we're going to exempt from the salary cap any half-back who is selected for any of the England developmental or full squads. This would then allow clubs, if they unearthed a real gem like Eastmond, to match predatory RU offers. It would also give clubs an incentive to develop half-backs as half-backs, rather than doing what is described in this thread, and taking potential half-backs but then pushing them out to fullback or wing while buying in a tried-and-tested Aussie.

Ryan Hampshire - with any luck. . . In 2-3 years

He'll be moved to FB too.

I think he'll play FB for a couple if seasons then move into the halves

Or hooker........a Aussie schoolboys team came over packed with future stars but was ripped apart by Tommy Lee and Scott Moore who are both now...Hookers.

We find them by letting our young hopefulls play in super league & not like my club go looking down under. We have let a young prospect leave the club to go to Gateshead as he wants to play every week he wont get that as we have gambled on two Aussies one who is injury prone the other 30 years old? we have had Dobson, Burns, Keating, Green only one has given value (Dobson) the rest have gone to supopsedly bigger clubs. While they were at the club I dont recall any youngsters given the chance to even fail in our first team. at least our rivals accross the river have stuck with a good local lad (Abdul) maybe we need an option for the kids after they reach 19.

Anyone think Ratchford is capable of stepping in at 6? Move Widdop to SH and thank Matty Smith for his efforts and let him go back to being a good SL no7. I know Wire play him at FB but for me he's got all the skills to make a top class 6. I certainly think he was worthy of a bench spot the past few weeks with his versatility to cover the whole of the backline. Other than that I'm in agreement with others who've suggested moving ST up into the halves and slotting Hardaker in at the back

That's assuming we've seen the last of Chase of course.

Kevin Brown is the best HB in England (assuming Brough is Scottish). He should have been 6 with Widdop at 7.

And therein lies the problem with the British game - Brown is ok and certainly worth a shout with what we have available, but would he have an impact at International level??

The standard of half back in the modern game, or at least what is demanded of a half back, is very, very average.... A John Woods or a Andy Gregory with this present England side would make a massive difference.

A half back should be a spark - most nowadays are just there to do the basics like pass the ball on along the line, or hoof the ball upfield on the fifth tackle and, bizarrely, anybody who can do this reasonably well, is seen as some sort of genius.

Unfortunately, with kids being brought up on the modern game, which is so sterile and structured, the days of the half back being the master locksmith to an opposition's defence will very soon be long forgotten - Let's not forget, we presently have a champion side which won their title by having NO half backs.