A few questions (none of which are rhetorical) I'd be fascinated to know the answers tooutside[/i of the traditional big spenders i.e. Leeds, Wigan, Bradford, St. Helens (perhaps Warrington)? I'm talking purely about league positions (assuming 5th or 6th is now 1st) which I know is not an ideal measure but it's a starting point.

2. Which club last won SL, or just the league, running a modest budget in comparison to other big-spending clubs?

3. Based on the figures published (and I know they aren't comprehensive) what is the relationship between budget and final league position?

You mean how competitive are the whipping boy SL rabble clubs among themselves? Hull FC come out on top as they've finished top of the rabble 6 times, Castleford 4 times top of the rabble during the earlier years of SL, Huddersfield 3 times top of the rabble in more recent years, Catalan twice in recent years and London twice during the early years of SL. There is more than likely a strong (if not direct) relationship between the levels of investment in the respective playing squads of clubs at the time and their finishing positions on the ladder. Castleford may be the exception as they were well coached by Stuart Raper - he may have been the most influential factor during their relative 'nosebleed' periods on the SL ladder.


Leigh in 1981/82.


I'd need to see those figures but I'd expect that relationship to be pretty conclusive in respect of it's influence on any clubs league position, and certainly more influential than whoever happens to be the coach... with the occasional exception as noted earlier.

I don't think there's been a budget SL/League-winning team (along the lines of, say, a Derby County under Brian Clough) in my lifetime. I mean, I've heard all kind of tales about such-and-such a club spending less, improving their academy etc. But, since the beginning of SL at least, the most successful sides (Bradford, Saints & Leeds) have always spent big in relation to other clubs.

RL fans are infinitely imaginative when it comes to providing reasons for the failure (in their eyes) of SL. The competition structure is wrong, certain clubs are "more professional" than others when it comes to junior development, the salary cap prevents "high achievers" from "realising their potential", the game's administration is "corrupt" or swayed in its decisions by the bigger clubs, Venus is at aphelion whilst Mars is currently traversing the constellation of Orion etc etc.

Yet, strangely, only a handful are willing to promote the most obvious theory of them all"Money doesn't buy success"[/i. Fans point to the vast sums Leeds invested in the likes of Hanley, Laughton and company to try and break Wigan's (equally money-enhanced) stranglehold on the league during the 90s. But whilst their attempts ultimately proved fruitless it's not like they were languishing at the foot of the table, either.

If we look only at SL it's very difficult to pick out one obvious example of a club which has both consistently spent big on players and been near the bottom of the table.

Fans simply love to argue that SL isn't competitive. I think they couldn't be more wrong, if you factor out the most destabilizing force in the competition - money. The clubs who invested the most have, since the very beginning, been very competitive with those spending similar amounts (yes Leeds have enjoyed a lengthy run, but it's not as if they've been pulverising their peers in the lead-up to the final). Meanwhile, below position 4 (or 5), there has been a similarly healthy mix-up in positioning.

Surely, instead of giving consideration to the, quite frankly, lunatic arguments proposed by some to raise the cap even further we should - at the very least - think about taking a leap of faith in the opposite direction: lowering the cap, creating a "minimum spend" or an absolute and only limit? I'm not suggesting this would suddenly create a utopia. But it would be a refreshingly novel experience beginning a season in which spending is the same across the board.

In my view we have to take steps to break the stranglehold money has on the sport. There's nothing worse than a fan of the top clubs browbeating the likes of Salford, London or the lower league clubs for not being "worthy of success" whilst his own club stands atop the league on a pyramid of cash provided by someone who has never played the game in his life.

Money might not guarantee success, but only in the same way that wearing a life-jacket might not absolutely prevent drowning.

Leeds last year, in fact Leeds for the last few years.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "modest budget". Leeds are the biggest spenders each and every year, but often spend on players wages a couple of hundred thousand below the salary cap. They do however spend a significant amount on other aspects of the playing side such as the academy and physio/conditioning/sports science.

Someone named leigh as the last club to win the title without paying money out,sadly thats not the case leigh that season broke the club record in signing ian potter from warrington if I remember righty and a figure of around £50,000 which even today would be massive never mind 1981/82 also I think a few more players were purchased as the season went along.

Its the age old tale of money does win you sucess,admittly you need the right coach as leigh had with murphy then and coupled with the development of john woods and des drummond along with the clever signings of potter ,martyn and others who seem to have slipped mi owd yead
As it stands now no one with any serious cash wants to come into a sport were you can't sign who you want.

Imagine if some super loaded fella wants to buy oldham for instance and wants to bring in england ru internationals and current super stars from down under the game is set up to stop him advance to the top of the tree so what incentive does he have for deciding to pump money into his home town club??? I know this person does not exist at the moment but what if there is some loon hanging in the shadows and our rules of franchise and caps make him think twice about it???

Pie in the sky I know but are an handful at the top determined to make our game unattractive to invest in sothey can remind the big fish in a very small finacial pond???

As a fan of one of the not much money clubs, I agree with Mugwump in that there are two competitions effectively, and each are competitive in their own right.
I would increase the salary cap, even though it would not initially benefit my club. We need to keep the best players playing Super League. If a club can pay it, I think they should be allowed to.
What I do like is a cap that limits you paying more than you have, but not a real value limit.

There are other rules that help you keep an even league with advantages in playing your academy and local players and I liked the 20-20 rule of only so many being paid over that amount. Different numbers now though.

There are somewhere in the region of one million five hundred thousand one pound notes between the current salary cap and paying no wages at all. It is ridiculous to suggest SL players cannot enjoy a good standard of living, at a high level of football on some lower figure. Besides, we're living in times of considerable deprivation. It is unfair to suggest they shouldn't shoulder some of the burden, too.

If players want to leave - fine. The game has survived exoduses in the past and will continue to do so.



In many people's eyes we are ALREADY seen as a feeder comp for the NRL and RU. Almost all of our first line pack is currently enjoying the beauty and climate of Sydney. As for cutting costs - I'd argue the game could fare no worse than under the current system which has presided over the calamity at Bradford, the worries of Salford, Saints and Warrington being one wealthy benefactor away from financial meltdown etc.

As for a developing gap. As previously stated, I would think seriously about a fixed, absolute and non-negotiable sum to spend on wages as an entry qualification for the league (or some other suggestion).



Well, that's your opinion. I think it's speculative and highly pessimistic. But yes - I am arguing for greater intervention in order to prevent those clubs with the most money from dominating the sport, as they have done since before I started watching RL. Perhaps I wouldn't mind so much if the money was, in some way, [ideserved[/i. St. Helens were flat out broke and teetering on the precipice (because of a ridiculous credit-fueled spending binge on Sculthorpe and co.) when they were [ivery fortunately[/i rescued by Eamonn McManus. Were Saints so much more deserving of a wealthy benefactor than, say, Salford, or Leigh or Batley? Ditto Warrington. Ditto Wigan etc. etc.



I'm afraid the current precarious finances of many SL clubs seem not to support your argument.

What worries of financial meltdown do we have at Warrington? It's true that the chequebook of and the financial security provided by Mr Moran are very welcome, advantageous and comforting to us. But it's not like he is pumping money in week in week out to prop up the business. If he was to leave, we might have to make a few cuts here and there but we are currently a successful, profitable club so nowhere near "meltdown"



To be fair, precarious finances are being caused more by lack of income than by excessive spending on players. Lower the cap and you seriously risk lowering the quality of the product which in turn lowers your ability to generate income. So finances would still be precarious and we'd have less entertaining rugby to watch in front of lower crowds.

You have to get the balance right. First of all the clubs and SL need to put more effort into marketing and image in order to improve TV deals and sponsorship deals. Easier said than done of course.

It would be a ridiculous suggestion, that’s why nobody suggested that we don’t pay our players anything.

And its not about players only being able to enjoy a high standard of living, its about the opportunities they have, and that we as a game are in competition for their skills. It’s the fact that a player like Ian Kirke who has skills outside the game becomes more likely to make fewer sacrifices to stay in the game the less we pay him. That isn’t greed it is understandable, its normal and expected. Kirke may be happy to delay his legal career whilst earning £50k a year at Leeds Rhinos, he may not for £30k. If we put his wages down, we lose him. This is a bad thing. Then on the other end of the scale you have Ryan Hall, who may be happy to resist the bright lights and big wages of RU and NRL for £200k a year at Leeds Rhinos, but not for £100k. Again this is understandable, It’s a short career why should he subsidise the game?


And it would be the very antithesis of why our game was formed.

. And that is a bad thing, It is a very bad thing that we are seen as a feeder league, it damages us in numerous ways. It is something we should be fighting to change to exacerbating.

But that is a fairly unimaginative, and niave standpoint predicated on the assumption that wages are a good barometer for a players quality and that talent distribution can only be done through a restriction on wages.

How is that money undeserved? You may also look and see a correlation between the clubs with the most money and the clubs with the most fans, and the clubs who sell the most merchandise, bring in the biggest sponsors and have the highest visibility.

And the fact our talent is wanted elsewhere, with much bigger wages on offer supports it. The running of SL clubs and the limited amount of money being brought in to the game isnt part of the calculation of whether or not a player is paid a wage congruent to his talent.

The current salary cap provides an average salary of something like £65k. That does sound like a good standard of living, true. But it's not as simple as that, is it. Firstly, the top players at each club can rightly expect to earn double that, possibly even triple that. That means to balance things up, there will be players on half that or a third of that or less. Then you have to remember that a career only lasts 10 to 15 years in most cases and could end at any time through injury. So is the prospect of a highly risky, short-term £30kish attractive to someone who enjoys sport at school and university who has the chance of a career lasting 40+ years paying decent wages?

If players want to leave - this is not fine. We can stand the odd one, yes, but to lower the salary cap would drive down the quality of SL further and further.

My club has spent full salary cap most years yet not really come close to silverware suggesting either we are crap at recruitment, we have had crap coaches or the top clubs are spending much more than the official cap.

Or your youth systems aren't as good, or your training and conditioning hasn't been as good, or your sports science isn't as good etc all need money spending on them.