Rugby League needs to expand to survive as a sport. Jamie Peacock, Brian Noble and Jon Wilkin all agreed we need to take Rugby League to new places outside the M62 corridor. Catalan Dragons should be the blueprint for how to do that successfully.

Some flatcap supporters will not like this proposal, but it is vital for the future of the sport. Catalans were given admission straight into Super League and immunity from relegation. The same should have happened with The Toronto Wolfpack, who have wasted two years and a lot of David Argyle’s money easily beating semi professional clubs.

Wherever the next expansion venture is, if they have serious Super League ambitions and big financial backing, they should go straight into Super League and have no danger of relegation. The league needs to expand to 14 teams anyway to avoid loop fixtures, we should use this as an opportunity to add 2 new expansion clubs. Obviously 2018 is too soon, but we should plan for it now to make it happen in 2020.

All threads related to the pro,s and cons of expansion should go int this thread

This includes topics relating to the pros and cons of Toronto, the benefits of a second French team, who do you want to win the middle eights etc..

Topics about individual games can stay as separate but if they then turn into a general discussion about expansion etc then they will be merged.

Have to agree with OP, the game is dying away and needs big city franchises away from the heartlands. Expansion is needed for sure but it has to be done right.Catalans are a massive success story in this regard for us and hopefully Toronto can continue their early promise and make SL then consolidate there over the next few years. I still have hope at some point we can make London work.

People have been saying rugby league is dying since the 1970s. It never has.

1996 was the turning point between the two codes of rugby but all RL needs to do is allow clubs with money to spend that money and grow the game from the top down, not the bottom up. It’s as simple as that.

It doesn’t matter who that includes, even if that was as it is right now the game would be better, never mind including new clubs.

None of those English stats of the NRL would ever need to leave, other than to sample a different life. The sport would be better here if we could just keep hold of our lads.

If we can include new clubs to bring more money into the game then good (although I would dread a Catalans v Toronto Challenge Cup/Grand Final at Wembley/OT in front of 15000).

I’m gonna have to agree too. There are plenty of rugby areas in the UK that could be looked at. Yes, these are Union areas, however not everyone is suited to union. Union is very ‘body specific’ with what position you play in my opinion, whereas League anybody can have a go at. My guess is that there are plenty of young players in Union areas falling by the way side due to not being the correct shape for their position etc.. (maybe i haven’t worded it very well, but hopefully you get the gist of it). Areas such as Leicester are hot beds of Rugby talent and there is a lot of public interest in rugby in the area. I used to work in Leicester and the company I worked for was a Leicester Tigers sponsor and had a box there. Being a senior manager for the company at the time I was fortunate enough to be able to use the box whenever I wanted and I had many conversations at the games about League and the general comments were they enjoyed watching it on TV, but it didn’t have a presence in the area. I got the feeling that it would have been well supported there with a similar arrangement to how the 2 codes in Leeds are structured. I currently live in Derbyshire and just on the street I live on several people watch league on SKY and always shout me the day after a televised game to discuss it (they all watch Cas games on TV, but thats just so they can give me grief if we lose!). The interest is out there. With the correct work, structure and guidance there are several cities that could build well supported League clubs. The question is, do the powers that be in our sport have the brains and ability to make such projects work?? The bigger question is do they have the patience? The problem in our game of not giving things time to work could be the ultimate downfall of the long term future of the game - take the constant changing of league structures as an example. As always, only my opinion, some will slate me for it and others may agree, but only putting my point of view across.

Where's my Expansion 1 Flat Cappers 0 expansion post disappeared too??

Between 1998 and 2008 we had, I think, four clubs that proved capable of winning silverware. In the subsequent decade we've had eight by my reckoning (Saints, Wire, Cas, Hull, Hudds, Wigan, Catalans & Leeds). I'm not too fussed whether the competition is strengthened in the next decade by traditional or expansion clubs adding to the list of challengers but whichever can do that will be those that evolve. In contrast, those that offer their fans zero hope of success will be those that struggle - whether they be in Canada or Calderdale.

Areas of the country with no top Premier League side or top RU side:
Southport
Grimsby
Lincoln
Stoke
Chester
Sunderland
Plymouth
Shrewsbury
Blackpool
York
Peterborough
Southend-on-sea
Portsmouth
Derby
Preston
Lancaster
Middlesbrough
Bradford
Aldershot and Farnborough
Barnsley
Luton
Milton Keynes
Crawley
Mansfield
Swindon
Peterborough

London, Sheffield, Cardiff, Gateshead, Kent, Mansfield...all tried and failed in varying degrees. The expansionists can dress this up in which ever way they see fit, add some cliched business speak and call the traditionalists "flat cappers". The truth of the matter is, it been tried before and failed. Invest the misappropriated funding in the grass roots and build from there.

Fair comment. There is a lot of clichéd business speak doing the rounds. Unfortunately "invest in the grass roots" sounds equally intangible. Care to expand a bit?

London- full of top football and has RU teams
Sheffield- a football city
Cardiff- Prem footy team and RU hotbed

And a club ready and waiting to get the run to SL if they could get the opportunity to, stadium_check, backers_check, potential fanbase_check...
Manchester Rangers!

Already getting 250 fans attending eighth/ninth division games in this stadiumhttp://www.rugby-league.com/_mediaimages/imagesource.php?image
The one in the foreground, on that huge sporting campus, where the RFL are moving to...

Yesterday has debunked the following myths:

1. Expansion into France has failed

2. French players are squad players and not key players for Catalans

3. McNamara is a rubbish coach who won't win anything and doesn't know what he's doing.

4. No one watches Catalans away from home

5. The BBC secretly hate RL and promote union as much as they can.

6. Catalan cant win away from home.

7. The French bottle it in the big games

8. Richard Lewis was wrong to put Catalans into a British SL and protect them with licensing.

9. Attendances matter and is what should be focused on

I'd love to see Rangers admitted into L1.