FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Laura Wright to Perform Jerusalem at Grand Final |
![](images/sitelogos/2022-2.jpg) |
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 0 | ![](images/staff.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2012 | Jan 1970 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
6_1349433453.gif [b:n88fp6ad][size=100:n88fp6ad]RLFANS.COM news items are posted in forums where it is thought that they will be of interest to the readership, all comments made below will also be available for viewing through the front page.[/size:n88fp6ad][/b:n88fp6ad]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6.gif |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 1468 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/33.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 1970 | Jun 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| The truth about Jerusalem is that it isn’t a patriotic poem at all. Parry’s music gives the hymn an upbeat tempo – especially with the booming orchestration by Edward Elgar – but William Blake’s original words are as laced with resentful irony as Shostakovich’s Leningrad symphony. Famously, Blake asks four questions in succession, and the answer to each is a resounding no. Christ’s feet never trod in England; the Lamb of God didn’t gambol – preposterous as the image is – around the Cotswolds; the Holy Spirit wasn’t regularly spotted in London fog; and most directly of all, there was no sense of Jerusalem in the dark Satanic mills of the Industrial Age. The consequent fantasy of building a New Jerusalem in England is widely understood by anyone who studies Blake to be a stonking parody of Napoleonic Era nationalism. Even in 1804, no one sung and danced about their own ‘mental fight’ and expected to be taken seriously.
Instead, Jerusalem encapsulates Blake’s fears about the all-too-easy suppression of the individual spirit. The ‘Satanic mills’ may refer to the Albion Flour Mills, large-scale mills near Blake’s home which were burned down anonymously after they threatened to put smaller millers out of business. (So, Jerusalem as an anthem would celebrate anti-capitalist arson. Which makes us virtually French.) But when Blake wrote about ‘mills’ elsewhere he usually used them as a metaphor for institutionalised religion – which, like Marx after him, he considered the natural ally of capitalism and monarchy. (He was wrong, of course, but that’s another fight for another day).
Consider Blake’s apocalyptic vision, Vala. On nine successive nights, Blake dreams that the universe unravels: on the ninth, superstition (Mystery) is lifted from the earth. ‘Art thou she that made the nations drunk with the cup of Religion?’ declares the spirit Tharmas. ‘Go down, ye Kings and Counsellors and Giant Warriors…Go down with horse and Chariots and Trumpets of ho war… Let the slave, grinding at the mill, run out into the field. Let him look up into the heavens and laugh in the bright air.’ Religion, War, Kings and Mills = bad; bright air and sunshine = good. After all, Blake, who was charged with sedition in 1803, was the non-conformist son of English Dissenters. He had little time, too, for the Glastonbury myths of St Joseph of Arimathea which permeate the verse. Instead, Blake satirised, rather than shared, the quasi-religious nationalism of his contemporaries. There’d be a heavy irony in the Queen’s modern subjects appropriating his words to swear loyalty to a collective cause.
I’m less convinced than Blake that there’s anything wrong with the gentler forms of nationalism, per se. When the Telegraph’s Tim Stanley debated this with me on Sky News yesterday, Tim argued that English nationalism is a destructive force, that rise of differing national symbolisms heralds a Balkanistic breakup of the Union. That’s overly pessimistic: a certain pride in Englishness should reassure us that the Celts aren’t the only Britons with an interesting history. It subverts the narrative which presents England as a soggy bland mass, against which ‘subaltern’ cultures proudly define themselves. It’s harder to hate your Sassanach oppressors when they’ve got an upbeat soundtrack.
But please, not Blake. He’d turn in his grave to know that English rugby fans already wave St George’s flag along to his words. Other prominent options are tricky, too. Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, is already sung by rugby fans, but is abstract and overly religious. So is I Vow To Thee, My Country – which even harps on unpatriotically about England not being as pure as Heaven. Land of Hope and Glory is closely associated with the genocidal Cecil Rhodes, and singing about the need to push our national boundaries ‘wider and wider’ seems a little distasteful nowadays. But there’s always Ivor Novello’s Rose of England, which celebrates the rose’s truly English ability to blossom in rainy showers. Like the best patriotic songs, it brings back memories of British bravery during the Blitz of World War II, and it doesn’t have any dodgy references to Empire, either.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 5139 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2011 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2021 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Thanks for that Ronnie, when I go down to't club on Sunday night if the rugby talk drys up I'll bring that up in conversation, should pass an hour on ![Laughing icon_lol.gif](images/smilies//icon_lol.gif)
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 1087 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2018 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2019 | Sep 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
77270_1562571079.jpg The Leigh and Wakefield fans mentality......
Say something negative about any other team than theirs - Its an opinion
Say something negative about Leigh and Wakefield - TROLL:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_77270.jpg |
|
| Who?
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 295 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2012 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2021 | Aug 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
66569_1384981373.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_66569.png |
|
| Dreadful song. Couldn't they find a better one?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 9 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2019 | 5 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2020 | Feb 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
|
Interesting. Mods seemed to have deleted the comments showing that MMR completely plagiarised his comment from Kate Maltby's article.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/t ... jerusalem/
If you are going to copy and paste someone else's work, you could at least give them credit.
|
|
Interesting. Mods seemed to have deleted the comments showing that MMR completely plagiarised his comment from Kate Maltby's article.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/t ... jerusalem/
If you are going to copy and paste someone else's work, you could at least give them credit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 7181 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2014 | 10 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2024 | Oct 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.: |
|
| Quote: LaVenRouge "Interesting. Mods seemed to have deleted the comments showing that MMR completely plagiarised his comment from Kate Maltby's article.
He left - Quote: LaVenRouge "When the Telegraph’s Tim Stanley debated this with me on Sky News yesterday,
'" in the piece,which gave it away.
I didn't think it PC,nowadays,for a lady's age to be disclosed.
I am a gentleman,Laura,and would never do so. ![bow down a014.gif](images/smilies//a014.gif)
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3726 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/52.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2021 | Jan 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
18764_1329753271.gif Waiting for the 2021 RLWC:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18764.gif |
|
| Yes, please credit the source.
As an English Literature graduate I can tell you that analysis of Blake is always problematic. There are myriad interpretations of [iJerusalem[/i. Blake was, at the same time, sceptical about the Industrial Revolution and it's affect on working people, a supporter of the French revolution, and a deeply spiritual man. All of these elements of his character are reflected in the poem. It's not a total slagging-off of Christianity. See '[iTyger[/i' for Blake's interest in the power of the almighty. What's for sure is that the Parry music transforms the poem into something far more upbeat and positive overall than would be the case with the verse on its own.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1466 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2024 | Dec 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: LaVenRouge "Interesting. Mods seemed to have deleted the comments showing that MMR completely plagiarised his comment from Kate Maltby's article.
Correct it would appear my post has been deleted? If your going to moderate the site then please start with the people with multiple usernames, then you might find this site picks up again.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 1468 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/33.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 1970 | Jun 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: Asgardian13 "Yes, please credit the source.
As an English Literature graduate I can tell you that analysis of Blake is always problematic. There are myriad interpretations of [iJerusalem[/i. Blake was, at the same time, sceptical about the Industrial Revolution and it's affect on working people, a supporter of the French revolution, and a deeply spiritual man. All of these elements of his character are reflected in the poem. It's not a total slagging-off of Christianity. See '[iTyger[/i' for Blake's interest in the power of the almighty. What's for sure is that the Parry music transforms the poem into something far more upbeat and positive overall than would be the case with the verse on its own.'"
That was my point .
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3726 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/52.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2021 | Jan 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
18764_1329753271.gif Waiting for the 2021 RLWC:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18764.gif |
|
| Quote: My Mate Ronnie "That was my point .'"
Agreed, I was actually replying to the plagiarised orginal article which doesn't allow this point.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 1468 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/33.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 1970 | Jun 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: Asgardian13 "Agreed, I was actually replying to the plagiarised orginal article which doesn't allow this point.'"
I know totally agree with you .
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 1789 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2016 | 8 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2019 | Nov 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
75357_1559488330.jpeg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_75357.jpeg |
|
| I don't like god bothering stuff. Don’t believe in any of it in any way whatsoever. I think religion is very weird and backwards.
God doesn’t exist, heaven and hell don’t exist, there’s not even a shred of evidence at all that Jesus ever existed, and Christianity is abhorrently responsible for millions upon millions of deaths over the centuries.
We’re a secular country and atheism is ever growing. I think we should leave all backwards god bothering stuff like hymns in sport behind.
But I like Laura Wright!
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 979 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/59.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2017 | 7 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2022 | Aug 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: Psychedelic Casual "I don't like god bothering stuff. Don’t believe in any of it in any way whatsoever. I think religion is very weird and backwards.
God doesn’t exist, heaven and hell don’t exist, there’s not even a shred of evidence at all that Jesus ever existed, and Christianity is abhorrently responsible for millions upon millions of deaths over the centuries.
We’re a secular country and atheism is ever growing. I think we should leave all backwards god bothering stuff like hymns in sport behind.
Agree with you I can not understand why people believe in god when young children die for no reason if they was a god why does he let it happen and agree with you about Laura
But I like Laura Wright!'"
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 1087 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2018 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2019 | Sep 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
77270_1562571079.jpg The Leigh and Wakefield fans mentality......
Say something negative about any other team than theirs - Its an opinion
Say something negative about Leigh and Wakefield - TROLL:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_77270.jpg |
|
| Quote: Psychedelic Casual "I don't like god bothering stuff. Don’t believe in any of it in any way whatsoever. I think religion is very weird and backwards.
God doesn’t exist, heaven and hell don’t exist, there’s not even a shred of evidence at all that Jesus ever existed, and Christianity is abhorrently responsible for millions upon millions of deaths over the centuries.
We’re a secular country and atheism is ever growing. I think we should leave all backwards god bothering stuff like hymns in sport behind.
But I like Laura Wright!'"
Absolutely. Rather than believe in creationism we are supposed to believe that everything came from some supposed Big Bang which started as the size of a pin prick.
Embarrassing that people like yourself lap it up with absolutely no evidence
|
|
|
![](images/sitelogos/2022-2.jpg) |
|
![](images/sitelogos/2022-2.jpg) |