Many people are getting carried away by the narrow England series win against a badly depleted New Zealand side.

Consider, based on current form, the New Zealand side that England will probably face in 2017 (players missing from this series in bold)Roger Tuivasa-Sheck

Jason Nightingale, Dean Whare, Shaun Kenny-Dowell, Manu Vatuvei.

Kieran Foran
Shaun Johnson

Jason Taumololo
Simon Mannering, Kevin Proctor
Jared Warea- Hargreaves, Isaac Luke, Jesse Bromwich
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That is a hell of a team. The missing halves, loose forward and prop would have made a huge difference.

The possible inclusion in a future England team of George and Samuel Burgess, Jack Reed, and perhaps Samuel Tomkins (where would he be fitted?), would not offset the dramatic increase in New Zealand's ability that would come from having the six missing players available.

K

Sam would be FB, to provide the missing attacking flair.
Zac could then cover centre instead of a converted back-rower in Bateman.
reed could cover the other centre slot, but there will be other choices.
the issue then is in the halves. However, this is where 2 more years of development in the young players we have in SL may develop a genuine test half to partner Widdop in 2017.
And, with 2 more Burgess' back and Bateman to develop, the England pack will still be VERY good in 2017.

the secret is going to be identifying the potential and giving opportunity to develop in the international arena over the next 2 years. This England team has finally won a series, and the mental benefits to that are huge.

No way near as bad as the picture you paint. However, I know no England fan that is over optimistic. just refreshingly pleased to see us finally take some small steps forward, and convert opportunity into a win.

We know this, we know Nz are still a better team and rightfully still no1 in the world, but England have undoubtedly closed the gap.
1 or 2 iffy decisions went against NZ again today but a great game considering the conditions.

England's team will also look very different with Tomkins, Sam, and George Burgess, Walmsley, and Jack Reed

Why are NZ no1 in the world? They got thrashed in the World Cup final by Aus.

Yep but you'll inevitably get 3/4 starters missing out for Eng/NZ/Aus next year with injuries at the end of a long season. It's not the first year we've said "we'll have Reed available for centre next year"

Plus Daryl Clark, who seems to have been dropped on the basis of having had just a good 2015 compared to a stellar 2014. And, perhaps, for not playing in the NRL.

And though I wouldn't have selected him in 2014, Dan Sarginson, when he did get on the field, showed he could get on the outside of his opposite fairly easily and serve up opportunities for Ryan Hall. He ought still to be ahead of his rivals at left centre when fit.

Exactly.

We have plenty of improvement in us also. I can see England running with a bench of Tom and George Burgess, Walmsley and Roby next year and that's a frightening prospect!

Add in the two Sams and I think we can get a little carried away. We're not perfect, we'll be third favourites and we'll need some luck but this England side has probably the best group of players I've ever known in my time watching us.

The coaching position will also be interesting but maybe that debates for another day.

I don't see why we shouldn't be optimistic. We were a whisker away from beating both Australia and NZ in the games last year and We've just beaten NZ in a test series.

We have a very good squad and depth in most positions. IMO if we had a JT or SJ we would already be the #1 side in the world. The challenge for us is developing from a good team to one with that little bit of magic to pull a play out of the hat when it really matters.

What he said.

We had a better kicking game today but we still need 2 decent centres and half backs to compete with OZ/NZ best offerings.

They beat the Aussies in the Four Nations final last year and have won three of the last five FNs and WC finals.

England were also missing players. It's worth remembering that England's 2nd XVII when everyone is fit probably looks something like:

1. Tomkins S
2. Burgess
3. Cudjoe
4. Shenton
5. Lineham
6. Williams
7. Smith
8. Cooper
9. Hodgson
10. Hill
11. Farrell
12. Ablett
13. Cuthbertson

14. Burrow
15. Huby
16. Savelio
17. Ward

It's not exactly a bad side.

Was there a four nations last year?