A lot of the commentary has been criticizing coach Steven McNamara for his team selections. But it is time for a reality check: only two or perhaps four available English players are superior to their Kiwi opponents.

The superior English players are James Graham, Ryan Hall, and perhaps (controversial) Samuel Tomkins and George Burgess. But in every other position the Kiwis are much better. That is true most obviously in the halves, and in the forward back rows. Even the best English back rower, Sean O'Loughlin, is thoroughly outclassed by superstar in the making, Jason Taumololo.

The kiwi hooker Isaac Luke is clearly superior to either English hooker.

The Kiwi halves are both potential match winners. That cannot be said of the capable English halves.

Either Kiwi winger is superior to Joshua Charnley. But Coach Steven McNamara had better have Ryan Hall marking Manu Vatuvei, otherwise "The Beast" will score three or four tries against the defensively challenged Charnley.

The Kiwi centres are better than the English, especially in defence. Dean Whare is definitely the best of the four, and Shaun Kenny-Dowell is probably the second best.

I don't wish to belittle the ability of the Burgess twins or Chris Hill. They are superior to Adam Blair, as is Chris Hill. Blair is the only weaker link in the Kiwi pack, but even he is not too bad. But every other Kiwi forward is top class.

The implication of all of this is that every English player has to be at the top of his game to have a chance of winning. You can guarantee that Graham and Hall will be outstanding. But the others have to play the games of their lives. Otherwise England is out of the final.

I don't agree much there

Start to finish

Full back - Id say level if not id say Tomkins better

Wings - Hall is the WBW, Manu Vatuvei is not as good as he once was and defensively he can be suspect, Id say nightingales finishing is way off charnleys and both can be suspect with the high ball Roger Tuivasa-Sheck IS better but he aint playing

Centres again both Kiwis can be suspect Kenny Dowell was poor against Samoa and Whare can be hot and cold, Sarginson was good against the Aussie and although I doubts about him, he will stand the test, I don't think Watkins has had his best games and Id say was probably the worst player for England last week but he can mix it with the best -

Half back yes, I agree the Kiwi halves are very good Id Say Johnson is the best in the world right now, only Thurston anywhere close, and Foran compliments him well, However again I don't think England will be totally outgunned here, I think the guys we have had a good amount of time together and actually although not an exotic choice we see a settled and understanding partnership, and an much improved kicking game, we don't have a loose forward at 6 for a start weve had a few, So im not too worried here I think we can do good there.

Hooking wise as current form goes the top of list would be Clark by a mile, I for Brown was the kiws best option against Australia, he is not there, Luke I agree is a great player but last week for me he was rusty, Im not a fan of Hodgson to be fair but again I can only see us outgunned here if Luke improves 10 fold to his best.

For me Prop wise I think both cancel each other out personally both teams with very good props

Back row, I think may be England's Achilles heel, I do rate the Kiwis back row, Mannering in particular I feel overall he has been the play of the tournament, a crucial try saver last week his work rate and very importantly his excellent leadership is second to none



What will go against England is the Kiwi home advantage im sure of that, Yes the Kiwis were very good against the Aussies but lets not forget that was the worst Aussie performance against any team for quite some years and Samoa did exploit some Kiwi weaknesses

Let's be honest. Jean Capdouze became a rather boring & repetitive parody of himself a long time ago

Let's be honest. "Barrett was robbed" has nothing to contribute to a serious discussion. So instead he descends to the level of guttersnipe with irrelevant, boring and repetitive ad hominem attacks.

Gonna get some flak for this but I think Sam Tomkins has been Charnley and his brother apart one of our weaker players in both games.

Now that the screaming has died down I will expand on that. V Samoa he was great on the link-up, always is, but he was suspect, yet again, with the high balls, making two blatant, or more, mistakes and his running out of the ball from kicks he took was not anywhere close to that expected from a world class, let alone worlds BEST? Full Back as some like to claim. V Oz he never instilled me with confidence whenever such kicks were sent his way and in fact the wingers did a far better job of catching them cleanly than he did, Chranley did make a mess of one but he was at least in a position to be able to make an attempt at it........., leave that one there.
Farrell has not done that badly, broken no pots but has competed, he will find that a bigger item V the Kiwi's.
J Tomkins did OK V Oz, but he was the one defending 'RU' style that allowed Jennings to break and score the first try for them, Sam's tackle was ineffective, but Jennings, to be fair is good, and makes many defenders look poor in such situations.
I believe we have to confront strength with the same, we require larger second rowers who can match the kiwi's, sadly in my opinion that should exclude both Farrell and Tomkins.

Watkins is a superb athlete, but again not a good tackler. He is like Atkins was front on brave and big enough to handle any other centre or wingman, but his reading of developing play in front of him is desperately poor at best. At Leeds in S/L he can be compensated for in this aspect of his game, but against and facing top class players and out of the Leeds comfort zone he does fall down, however the attacking potential that he has does somewhat compensate and he must be included.

Myself I would still like to see Tomkins at 7 Widdop 6 a combination that would give guile and some extra pace up front, leave the kicking to Widdop too, he very capable of that.
Props I also think they are pretty equal and will do well should they manage to match the kiwi's there, they certainly will power over them so forget that.

My selection would ideally be
Hardaker

Burgess
Watkins
Sarginson
Hall

Widdop
Tomkins

Graham
Clarke
Hill
Ferres
Westerman/Whitehead
O Loughlin

Burgess G
Burgess T
Whitehead/Westerman
Smith
I only nominate Whitehead solely because of the reasons given above.

Kenny-Dowell didn't look too great when being brushed aside by his opposite number at the weekend! And O'Loughlin 'outclassed' give me a break!

We are clearly outmatched in the second row, as we have been all tournament, and at hooker we look weaker but Clark does offer an injection and in both games so far has sparked us into life.Our halves have been ok, but i feel Widdop has more to offer and hopefully he can step it up a level this week.Charnley is a concern if up against Manu, here i would consider a change but overall we shouldn't be all that far away, we are certainly closer to NZ than you make out here however the proof of that will come soon enough.

I can see where you are coming from, but a couple of points. If I was to have a half back on the bench it would be Ratchford over Smith, as he offers pace threatens more with the ball in hand. Then there is the second row, farrell has done enough to keep his place, but Westerman isn't effective in the second row and Whitehead has some serious question marks over his defence. That said I don't if Whitehead has improved over last season, so I'm willing to accept the opinions of those who have seen him play more regularly. Anyone accept the new Barry Mackenzie that is!

It really doesn't matter who is on the wing for England. They never see the ball except when relieving their line to give the forwards a rest.

You obviously didn't watch the game on Sunday - do you also not watch internationals as well as SL just the garbage they turn out at LL?

I've never rated O'Loughlin higher than a top club player.

I like Tomkins. But I'd like him much better if he were three inches taller carrying an extra stone. Call him "World Class" if you like. But how many "world class" players have you seen who are consistently thrown about like a rag doll?

Watkins has all the attributes. But he needs to get rid of Andy Currier as his defensive coach.

The only player I have no confidence in whatsoever is Smith. Any scrum half that can't take something from a MASSIVE weight and power advantage against a side bereft of props, playing four halves, carrying two hobbling players and praying [i"Hail Mary Full Of Grace"[/i doesn't deserve a ticket to watch the game - much less wear the seven shirt.

To be fair - that fend would have "brushed off" a Tiger Tank.

Kenny dowell did get somewhat hammered last week, but watching the NRL over the last three seasons, Joey Lailua has a habit of giving his opposite number the brush off and is a very good centre/player in his own rite.

SKD has had a tremendous season for the Roosters and is a dangerous opponent for anyone, he proved that the week previous V Oz, didn't he.?
Being fair to Watkins, he wont have to face many better than Jennings, in his entire career, who is easily amongst the two top centre's playing in the NRL.

Yet I have to stress that he, Watkins, really does need to step up defensively at this level.

Referring back to Sam Tomkins, for my money he is nowhere close to being a very good F/Back let alone a great one. There are to many weaknesses in his game to so classed and I would prefer him up front where he is available to do more of the link-ups he got with Graham last week.
I accept that he can come through from the rear, but that does not happen that often from him.
I would prefer him, there and thereabouts permanently, in order to cash-in more on any of the half chances, to do what he is definitely good at, scoring tries.

He began as an halfback so it isn't a case of having to learn whats what there.

Have to go with Mugwump on his rating of Smith. He has let no one down, but then again he hasn't exactly stolen the show either and, if he could not do that last week V 'this' present Oz side he certainly will not fare any better up against the Kiwi pair or the rest of them.
A good club player in S/L, whether he is that sharp in this company, I am not so sure.

....and keep on proving it.

I've only been back two days and already I have a stalker.

I think it's the after-shave. But it could be my cultured charm.

The main areas we are out gunned are in the centres, the back row and LF
In both cases the Kiwis have more size, power, skill, a stronger defense, I could go on.........

I have faith in Ferres, I thought he was amazing in the semi finals against the kiwis in the 2013 WC and I don't think he'll let us down but Oloughlin, Farrel are never going to dazzle us, they will defend well but give us no strike in attack
I think J Tompkins is still an unknown being so fresh back from RU but has the potential to do it and I just wish he had a year of SL under his belt, it will be a different story for him next season

Watkins is gonna take an absolute pounding in defense, I do like Watkins but we are yet to see his main attribute his ability to take on the line, I wanna see him have ago

Where I do think we can beat them is in our front row and that will count for a hell of a lot, especially if we keep our props fresh and just keep pouding up the middle we can break the kiwis pack, the Burgess twins & Graham/Hill will see to that

To agree with Melmam SKD has being standout for the roosters, we've not seen him near his best yet and again he's right with the Joey Lailua fend, he could have done that to GI

I think its gonna be as close as it was at 1/4 finals I think they will just pip us