I, like many others, am an advocate for Rugby League growth. I dream of the days when people look forward to the RL WC as much as they do the football one or look forward to the Grand Final as much as the Champions League final... or do I.

Do I actually want Rugby League to become like football? 20 years ago, football was the working man's game. It wouldn't be odd for player's to share a pint with fans after a match. Could you imagine that now? Footballers are so far out of touch with society that it's unreal. This may (or may not) be down to the huge investment in football that has inflated footballer's wages (and egos) beyond belief.

I personally like RL's club game exactly how it is. In my mind there are 2 balances that need to be struck going forward; 1) The Club vs International game balance and 2) The investment vs staying in touch with the fans balance. If Rugby League got the same type of investment that football has (and something that a lot of us on here strive for) and if it became the national game, would it be the same? Would it be better or worse?

i don’t want RL players to be my ‘friends’ I don’t really care if they are ‘out of touch’.

I watch RL because I enjoy the sporting contest, I want to watch RL in the biggest games, the best stadia, with the best players. I don’t care if they become as rich and as distant as film stars, footballers, boxers, pop stars or anybody else.

Though it is a good question, and I have always thought that a certain section of the game wants it to stay small and parochial and actively want expansion to fail and growth to be limited because they fear their club would be left behind.

Be careful what you wish for, unless you like the idea of £1000 season tickets for even the most modest seat in the stadium. Striking the balance is very difficult, but Wendyball has gone so far down the money route it's no longer a sport at all, just a hobby for billionaires and people who are prepared to go bankrupt emulating them.

Of course it is a sport, it is a great sport, it is the biggest sport in the world. I don’t understand the weird sense of superiority some RL fans have about football, like somehow our players earning less and fewer people only being prepared to pay less is a good thing.

I would happily pay £1000 for a season ticket to see the very very best rugby players playing in fantastic stadiums.

It all depends where that investement and expansion happens, if it is only at certain parts of the sport and others are left to die because they arent ' sexy or fashionable ' then no you can shove it

The sport is more likely to shrink if it only aims for the status quo. It's like holding your breath.

It some ways, it needs to aim to grow (and by implication expand) in order to survive.

Its how you personnally see ' expansion ' ?

Even if the numbers dont increase, but all clubs get stronger , that is expansion, ideally you want both more clubs and all clubs to get stronger, but some dont either see it that way, or want it that way

Has that happened in Football or Rugby Union? or do clubs eventually find their level?

You are confusing growth and expansion for some strange reason.

All clubs getting bigger is growth,

More clubs in new areas is expansion.

Starbugs problem is that his clubs ‘level’ is lower than he wants it to be, so growth and expansion means more bigger clubs and his clubs ‘level’ becomes relatively lower.

The converse is also true and as much as he pretends otherwise Starbug would be happier if the sport went backwards and all clubs were semi-pro playing in front of 2k fans because then his clubs level would be relatively higher.

Is expansion with a greater investment not growth?

Its growth for the club, expansion for the game.

The game being played in new areas is the game expanding,

the game being played more in the same areas is the game growing.

Its growth for the club, expansion for the game and therefore growth for the RFL

The game being played in new areas is the game expanding and growing

The game being played more in the same areas is the game growing and expanding just not nationally but locally

Currently football and RU doesnt have as many glass ceilings as RL, finding your level is not a problem , clubs being sustainable at a level is preferable, and all levels growing rather than shrinking is what the aim should be, however at the moment we have some levels doing the opposite of that

As Smokey has pointed out in the other thread, no club should be happy to remain where they currently are, and my club is no different to that , however it seems to me that some within the sport want certain clubs to remain weak, in an attempt to make newer, more locationally attractive clubs look stronger than they are