I think everyone can agree that English RL needs some sort of intermediary level of competition between the Super League and Internationals. Some form of games that will provide a step up in intensity and competition for our elite players, and a chance to assess and evaluate potential players and combinations for the England RL coaching staff. I think it has been proven that France do not provide a high enough standard of opposition, and many people would like to have a game against 'Other Nationalities'. While that idea sounds good on paper, in the long term (if our goal is to reduce the number of overseas players in the Super League) it is not viable.

We can't have a 'County of Origin' game, because that would limit us to Lancashire and Yorkshire and defeat the expansionist agenda.

So, how about an entirely new concept, which would be unique to RL. Probables v Possibles. Two 'All Star' teams, the Probables selected as those in the front running to represent England, and the Possibles, selected from those players on the fringes or coming through, eager to show what they can do in a non-club environment and against their more experienced fellow players. Both teams could be marketed as Barbarians-style sporting institutions. It would be an honour to appear for either. And the level of competition between the two, as they battle eachother literally for places in the England team, would surely be better than any game against France, Wales or Other Nationalities.

Thoughts?

It's up to the fans. If we turn up and give it some intensity, it'll take off.
Who would you support in England A vs England B though? Really, as what's really a training game, it would be poorly attended.

We do need something, I'm just not sure where it's coming from. The other local countries aren't yet up to it, and France took a step backwards this year. Origin didn't get intensity from fans or players. "Other Nationalities" wouldn't get commitment from the players or the clubs, and would be largely meaningless to the fans. Mid-season games vs Aus / NZ has travel problems.

I don't think there is a quick solution. Long term support of France and Wales should pay off eventually, but you're looking at 5-10 years for France and 10-20 for Wales, and that's if everything goes right commercially with their club sides.

Thats the crux of it. A game like England A vs England B means nothing and I cant see the fans getting behind it.

Wales beat France last week so a bit harsh on them to say they need 10 more years than France to develop. I agree though the long term view has to be to get Wales and France stronger.

In the short term I think it has to be England v other nationalities team. The NRL all stars game was a big hit.

For Wales, they're a bit further back in terms of their professional clubs and academies. They might be more competitve in the short term, but largely on the back of "English" players. It's only when they can put a team out that is primarily home grown that they'll be able to give consistently intense games.

Would an A v B game really be as poorly attended as a rout against Wales/France? I know which I'd rather watch.

quite agree with you there - why not a Rest of the World team to make up the four in the current Four Nations instead of PNG (or qualifying team) ?

by the way 'TO for SL',why has Carlos let so many good players leave TO for next season ? is it purely financial ? Surely this is NOT the way to get into SL ?

I still prefer the Australian/NZ tourists vs England idea

I like the Other Nationalities v England idea too, but if we're reducing the number of non-England qualified players in the league, surely the last thing we want to do is base our Test preparation on them being there?
I think a full intensity contest between two teams of players battling for an England shirt would be a draw for the public, if handled correctly. Id rather watch that than us batter France.

I would be interested in:

East v West
Lancashire v Yorkshire
Lancashire and The West v Yorkshire and The East
England v Other nationalities

I am not so keen on England Probables v England Possibles. That to me is more of a behind closed doors training game. I wouldn't know what team to support.

I know it's a bit of a gimmick but for the first year I would even consider allowing the winner of Yorkshire v Lancashire or East v West to go on to form the England team. This would give the game some meaning.

I believe that several of the above options would work if marketed properly and if rugby league fans got behind the concept.

I think an other nationalities/all stars/barbarians team playing in competitions like the four nations would take credability from the game. Playing friendlys/warm up games is fine but not in competitions.

With TO its a bit of a mystery, they do seem weaker this year which is dissapointing, you would have to guess its for financial reasons, still better to be a weaker team than send the club bust by overspending as many other clubs have done.

yes,can see that with the view to saving money in 2011 with the idea of making a serious charge for SL qualification in the 2012/13 seasons

do you know if we,TO13 still have the cushion of not being relegated by the rfl in 2011 should we finish in the bottom two ?

Oh goody , So Toulouse are likely to be weaker next season than last , but are excempt from relegation , so they bring what exactly to the Championship ?

The Origin stuff is a red herring, in my view. The Kiwis are now way ahead of us, and their players don't play Origin. The Aussies don't get their better skills and mental toughness from three mid-season matches, either. The reason they're better than us is that every week they play to a higher standard, consistently, and they have tremendous pressure from below for their jerseys, so they can't afford a loss in form. There isn't a club in SL whose fans wouldn't be able to point to two or three players they carry as passengers every week after a loss of form. For example, at Saints, Gidley's been effectively non-existent this year, yet he's been on the field every time he's been fit. Why is that ? Because either we don't have anyone better, or our coaches are too conservative to risk throwing kids in. [iAnd because it doesn't matter [/i!

Saints can still finish second top even with passengers, and even with another second-row filling in on the opposite centre for much of the rest of the season. Think about that, for a minute. Saints played much of this season with one semi-retired Aussie (Gidley) one one side, and a solid-but-unspectacular second-row (Flannery) or crocked young stand-off (Wheeler), on the other. Every opposition team knew this, but Saints still won the great majority of their games and finished second. That tells you everything you need to know about why we can't field decent backs against the Aussies and Kiwis. It's got nothing to do with whether there is or isn't a spurious extra competition in mid-season. It's got everything to do with the fact that there are no decent backs out there.

england v Other nationalities - 2 game series


and england 'A' v france and wales as curtain raisers


its not rocket science