There is an argument that Valencia and Belgrade would be better off in the French structure.

Both seem concerned with developing talent rather than throwing money about. The standard in the French second tier could be better for them.

This is the plan, we need France to be able to give GB a game. Ideally we need the other home nations to be strong to give England a good game also.

Catalans lack of French players at present is frustrating. Brexit should actually help Rugby League in this respect, once the league are able to force Cats to discriminate against UK players the more likely they are to get in some French players in the team. However is is still annoying Catalan need to be forced to sign local talent.

I agree with your sentiment but, despite their often mediocre performances, I do believe that their president is ambitious and like other CEO's, he walks the fine line between ambition and "doing the right thing". Most chase on field success and yet, as we see with the successful sides over here, most, if not all, gain that success by having a strong nucleolus of young, club trained players and with first pick of all of the young French players, they should be more than capable of this. Toulouse, seem to be doing things "the right way", albeit in the Championship.

Regarding Valencia and Serbia, your idea does sound sensible, although, it may not be worth their while to play in the French National league, both in terms of quality and maybe it wouldn't suit their ambition and who knows what politics may be at work.

Is the French national league the same standard, or similar, to the Championship? If so it might make sense to develop the French league as a European league and have a play off between their winner and the English Championship winner for a place in SL.

That is an excellent post on the face of it.

But you must remember Valencia and Belgrade are probably not even up to the standard of Elite 2, and there would be high travel costs - how would they afford them?. The idea of putting Toulouse and Les Catalans into Elite One would knock these clubs backwards and lose thousands of French fans who turn out because Les Catalans are playing in the highest league and Toulouse are aspiring to do the same. Do we really really see such a set up creating growth? Growth only comes from TV deals and more quality players.

At the level a Europe league would be playing at it would do neither of these things. OK IF playing RL is something that more and more people want to do across Europe then build it and they will come. But less and less people want to play rugby, and the lower the standard the less speccies they will get.

Millom smashed Belgrade in the Challenge cup. We are starting to view low level amateur clubs as potential Superleague clubs one day. If any of them can find a $$Billionaire fair enough other wise we need to try and resist this "Expansion Fever"....

Nowhere near Kev. Try league one?

I would suggest that there isn't a conveyor belt of quality young French Players.

All our English SL clubs run foundations upon which £300K is spent per club per year to encourage kids to play RL and to play at school and they channel the best and most enthusiastic to junior sections of amateur clubs, which then provides enough talented and ambitious lads so that we can supply and run a substantial academy league.

AFAIK this isn't the case in France hence you can count the number of SL quality first choice French pro players on your fingers. Toulouse only sign French players Les Catalans don't want. Les Catalans abandoned their Academy team AFAIK. The French game is weak and getting weaker. You only have to look back on the early years of Les Cats when they were a French team, now they are sliding towards being a wholly English/Aussie team.

It saddens me to say Les Catalans have been a failure, the measure of success*** being the development of quality players attracting TV deals so the population can pay to watch the spectacle. All Catalans are is an English team which French TV aren't interested in anymore who are blocking proper English clubs like Bulls, Vikings, Thunder and Leigh.......

*** the measure of success is not attendances BTW, TWP claim it is then fib about their attendances but TBF Catalans don't trumpet their 8,500 crowds

I'll start by saying that you need geographical spread across the competition. The sport will not thrive if it contracts to small English towns playing in front of a few thousand people. No sport that contracts back to it's heartlands and reduces teams is a healthy sport, just look at Aussie rugby union, the super league is nowhere near as dire as that. And to think you want to get rid of the only 2 successful expansion teams that super league has ever had?

Catalan does produce players, just maybe not as many as you would like. Why is their player pool less important than others to make you think are indespensible?

The irony is that no current super league club if they were to start tomorrow would be able to secure a tv deal by themselves, yet we expect new clubs to. It's the chicken before the egg argument. So please provide a source that confirms Sky's preference? Not from biased Chairmen, but from Sky themselves. If you can't, then all we are doing is speculating and my opinion is as correct as yours.

Well we are off again. I am supposed to provide hard documentary evidence to back anything I say whilst everyone else on the other side of the debate can wallow in an unsubstantiated dreamland. Not only that you seem to command me to provide "evidence" then you discount that evidence before I even give you it on the basis it is supposedly lies from "biased chairmen" you show me proof they are lying?? whilst they ring their Lawyers...

Let's start with "geographical spread" you say we need that? Do we really?? In 1896 the clubs who underpinned the game were Warrington, Saints, Widnes, Wigan, Leigh, Salford, Hull, Leeds, Bradford, Castleford, Huddersfield, Wakefield with HKR expanding the game to east Hull in 1899. That [i"Geographical narrowness"[/i has served us well for 124 years. So you are wrong on that one. 50 attempts have been made to spread the game geographically and none have worked so you could not be more wrong.

Let's now go onto Catalans player production. Their 2006 entry was based primarily on producing International class pro players to revive France as a professional test match level International side. If you want proof of that get of your lazy backside and go look it up. They failed badly.

On the TV deal you need to look that up. Les Catalans DID get a paying TV deal by themselves. Go do your own research because without it your talking unsubstantiated rubbish..

On player production they don't run an academy nor a reserves so no they do not produce players, the Elite League does that but after 14 years only a handful of French players are first pick in SL sides, and I mean a handful - go look it up the SL squads and first X111's are all listed for this year. It's just a fact SKY don't get subscriptions from France or North America so SKY don't need these glamorous overseas clubs, but you don't seem to do facts..........Apart from fact denial....

Quote The Silent H="The Silent H"I'll start by saying that you need geographical spread across the competition. The sport will not thrive if it contracts to small English towns playing in front of a few thousand people. No sport that contracts back to it's heartlands and reduces teams is a healthy sport, just look at Aussie rugby union, the super league is nowhere near as dire as that. And to think you want to get rid of the only 2 successful expansion teams that super league has ever had? =#FF0040 Catalan does produce players, just maybe not as many as you would like. Why is their player pool less important than others to make you think are indespensible? The irony is that no current super league club if they were to start tomorrow would be able to secure a tv deal by themselves, yet we expect new clubs to. It's the chicken before the egg argument. So please provide a source that confirms Sky's preference? Not from biased Chairmen, but from Sky themselves. If you can't, then all we are doing is speculating and my opinion is as correct as yours.'" Anglo-French relations at Catalanshttps://www.loverugbyleague.com ... ossip-194/ Catalans are keen to add more English (or Welsh) players to their squad, as they look to shrug off their travelling woes, as well as helping their growing contingent of English players to settle in France. They risked the irk of Salford last week by making a move for Wales international prop Gil Dudson, a stand out in the Red Devils’ run to the Super League Grand Final. Of Catalans 26-man squad for the new season, 14 are French and six are English.

Quote The Silent H="The Silent H"I'll start by saying that you need geographical spread across the competition. The sport will not thrive if it contracts to small English towns playing in front of a few thousand people. No sport that contracts back to it's heartlands and reduces teams is a healthy sport, just look at Aussie rugby union, the super league is nowhere near as dire as that. And to think you want to get rid of the only 2 successful expansion teams that super league has ever had? =#FF0040 Catalan does produce players, just maybe not as many as you would like. Why is their player pool less important than others to make you think are indespensible? The irony is that no current super league club if they were to start tomorrow would be able to secure a tv deal by themselves, yet we expect new clubs to. It's the chicken before the egg argument. So please provide a source that confirms Sky's preference? Not from biased Chairmen, but from Sky themselves. If you can't, then all we are doing is speculating and my opinion is as correct as yours.'" Anglo-French relations at Catalanshttps://www.loverugbyleague.com ... ossip-194/ Catalans are keen to add more English (or Welsh) players to their squad, as they look to shrug off their travelling woes, as well as helping their growing contingent of English players to settle in France. They risked the irk of Salford last week by making a move for Wales international prop Gil Dudson, a stand out in the Red Devils’ run to the Super League Grand Final. Of Catalans 26-man squad for the new season, 14 are French and six are English.

Quote snowie="snowie"Anglo-French relations at Catalanshttps://www.loverugbyleague.com ... ossip-194/ Catalans are keen to add more English (or Welsh) players to their squad, as they look to shrug off their travelling woes, as well as helping their growing contingent of English players to settle in France. They risked the irk of Salford last week by making a move for Wales international prop Gil Dudson, a stand out in the Red Devils’ run to the Super League Grand Final. Of Catalans 26-man squad for the new season, 14 are French and six are English.'" Erm 14 + 6 doesn't equal 26. The number of first choice French players in Catalans first ever game was 9 out of the 17, that is down to 6 out of the 17. Should they get the Wigan centre they have enquired about and Gil Dudson that will drop to only 4 out of the 17 being French....... Current imports are listed as Mead, Tierney, S,Tomkins, Langi, J. Tomkins, Davies, Whitley, Moa, McCrone, Maloney and Drinkwater, as above their recent recruitment drive saw them enquire at Wigan for a centre and now Dudson for prop. If successful that will give them a whole overseas X111. The plan was for the Catalans to be pretty much the French International side. The plan is now for Catalans to be another Anglo-Aussie side. SO sentiment apart mon ami's what should we do with them?

Quote snowie="snowie"Anglo-French relations at Catalanshttps://www.loverugbyleague.com ... ossip-194/ Catalans are keen to add more English (or Welsh) players to their squad, as they look to shrug off their travelling woes, as well as helping their growing contingent of English players to settle in France. They risked the irk of Salford last week by making a move for Wales international prop Gil Dudson, a stand out in the Red Devils’ run to the Super League Grand Final. Of Catalans 26-man squad for the new season, 14 are French and six are English.'" Erm 14 + 6 doesn't equal 26. The number of first choice French players in Catalans first ever game was 9 out of the 17, that is down to 6 out of the 17. Should they get the Wigan centre they have enquired about and Gil Dudson that will drop to only 4 out of the 17 being French....... Current imports are listed as Mead, Tierney, S,Tomkins, Langi, J. Tomkins, Davies, Whitley, Moa, McCrone, Maloney and Drinkwater, as above their recent recruitment drive saw them enquire at Wigan for a centre and now Dudson for prop. If successful that will give them a whole overseas X111. The plan was for the Catalans to be pretty much the French International side. The plan is now for Catalans to be another Anglo-Aussie side. SO sentiment apart mon ami's what should we do with them?