Quote: Donnyman "Yes of course we hold that against them. All SL clubs were required to develop players and that was, and remains through the "foundations" the SL clubs run that encourage and develop local grass roots RL. All English SL clubs have them and staff them. Why not look them all up?
You won't find such a system at Toronto, all you will find is a club that buys all it's players from here, or players from the NRL. Catalans don't seem have a junior development system that works either and they don't do academy anymore and an even larger proportion of their squad is now non-french (and the first choice team has only the odd Frenchman in it). Toulouse would not have any French SL players as the best go to Catalans, then Ottawa, New York, Montreal and Vancouver - the latter two who Perez revealed are in the pipeline - would also not have any home grown players. '"
Firstly, the argument that "all SL clubs are required to produce players" isn't accurate in the slightest. There is no requirement for clubs to produce players, only that they adhere to federation/overseas rules. Producing your own players is, of course, a way to do that, but it's far from a "requirement", to use your word.
We have English clubs that have barely produced a handful of elite players in the past two decades. We have clubs that have had a 120+ year head start on Toronto that don't run an academy structure. We have clubs that, despite having more than enough time to get it right, have academies that are classed as "requires improvement". If we're going to talk about clubs not producing talent, let's look at the whole picture - not just one club that's three and a half years old. Many clubs don't have a "junior system that works" - and they've had much, much longer than Toronto or Catalans to make it work.
The Catalans do have an academy, for what it's worth
I've said this plenty of times, but for some reason you seem to want to keep pushing a different agenda. I support expansion of the sport so that this sport can go on to be successful in terms of the product on the field and its security off it. Whether that is a Trans-Atlantic league or not, I don't mind, but clubs in North America are one potential avenue - an avenue with an awful lot of risk (as you know I have repeatedly acknowledged), but an avenue none the less.
If there were ways to grow this sport by "focusing on the heartlands", I'll happily support that but so far nobody on this forum, yourself included, who expresses such a sentiment has come up with a coherent suggestion for how "focusing on the heartlands" changes the sport's current trajectory.
But taking on your hypothetical Transatlantic league, and trying to "answer it properly".....
On how many clubs there should be in this league, there's no possible way to guage that at present. Toronto, the only North American club currently in existence, haven't kicked a ball in the Super League competition yet, we don't know what the appetite is from the audiences we want to reach and we don't know what the appetite is from sponsors on both sides of the Atlantic once they see what a Transatlantic SL looks like.
But if having North American clubs helps to raise standards in areas such as fan engagement, media engagement, commercial rights, etc, then bring it on. The sport sorely needs it, despite what 80% of Hull Daily Mail readers might think.
Who else will be in such a league? Well, frankly, the best clubs for the league. What the elite league of the sport should be about is those clubs that can be successful on and off the field - growing crowds, growing media interest, growing profile, ensuring that the players can earn a living that at least keeps pace with inflation - everything that Super League isn't doing at present. If that doesn't pass your test as a "proper answer", then I'm sorry but it's because its a question where there isn't a "proper answer" because many of the clubs talked about in this context (not by me, I might add) don't exist yet. Let's start with the one we've got, and see where it takes us.
I have never, either, said that a TV deal is a sure bet. I have said that being present in North America gives us a right to knock on doors but, from that point on, it's down to Toronto and Super League to make the case to those broadcasters. What TW have done however is gain the sport a level of media interest and discussion it has never had before.
As for what happens to the junior systems at the clubs / areas you mention. Firstly, let's acknowledge that participation is already falling. We therefore need to do something to change that trajectory.
Secondly, nobody has provided any tangible evidence that not having (for the sake of example) Wakefield in SL would result in a fall in junior participation at clubs in the Wakefield region. Sure, we have anecdotes, but there's nothing concreate to link participation at junior level with a presence in SL. There are lots of reasons why participation is falling - different distractions, demographic changes, RL's poor profile, competition from other sports, poor coaching, poor facilities, parental concerns about head injuries - whether the local professional club is in SL is probably way, way down the list.
Thirdly, do you not think that the opportunity to play professional RL in cities like Toronto or New York would be a huge incentive and inspiration to young people? It certainly would have been to teenage me back in the day.
Quote: Donnyman "And finally this nonsense about perez has left the club so the club aren't beholden to "his" business plan, it really is naive to pull this trick. Perez explained on behalf of TWP what TWP's business plan was. They were accepted to the RFL (and NOT Superleague) on this business plan and they did not and by their own admission will not deliver it. They should have been thrown out but a legal agreement sustains them 2020, and 2021 if they avoid relegation.'"
Have you never been involved in a business where the business plan or strategy has changed as things develop? As theories and ideas have been proven right or wrong? If so, you've lived a very sheltered life.
Quote: Donnyman "Now think about why New York who are seling off their last bits of merchandise and and Ottawa whose CEO has gone to Bradford haven't made any moves to join the game here?? Think about why TWP aren't recruiting many players, and are tying up existing players to 2021 and no further??'"
Toronto have just signed one of the biggest stars in world rugby and, in addition, a two-time Grand Final winner.
As a promoted club, they've had the same challenges in recruiting as every other promoted club - in not knowing the league they would be competing in as players entered the market during the summer. If the narrative has been that it's hard for newly promoted clubs to attract players, surely that has to apply to TW as well?
They also have a squad that appears to be well-equipped for SL as it stands. What more do you suggest they need?
Short-term contracts are common and, frankly, given the level of acrimony that has greated TW from various quarters of RL, would you make many long-term decisions?
As for NY and Ottawa, I don't know of the issue there but if you have credible links I'll happily look at them. My understanding is that Perez is at Bradford as a consultant to Wood, but will step back to Ottawa when the take on Hemel's licence next year. It seems though as if you're saying that its a bad thing that NY are selling merchandise?
